Sender: The Irish Diaspora Studies List
From: Linda Dowling Almeida
Subject: Source request
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I need some help identifying a quote from Professor Don MacRaild:
=0A=
=0A=

=93Migration is part of the human life-cycle. Like a birth=2C=0A=
a marriage or a death=2C it is a threshold event: a moment of profound choi=
ce or=0A=
change that affects people forever.=94=0A=
=0A=

Can anyone tell me which of his publications it appears in?Thanks so much.L=
inda Dowling Almeida=0A=
=0A=

=

Sender: The Irish Diaspora Studies List
From: Bill Mulligan
Subject: J. of the Assoc. for the Study of Australian Literature-- New
Issue Published
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List members may find the latest issue of JASAL, which focuses on the =
work of Joseph Furphy, of interest.

Journal of the Association for the Study of Australian Literature has =
just published its latest issue at =
http://www.nla.gov.au/openpublish/index.php/jasal. We invite you to =
review the Table of Contents here and then visit our web site to review =
articles and items of interest.

Thanks for the continuing interest in our work, Susan Lever The =
University of Sydney Phone 0295160668 susan.plever[at]bigpond.com =
________________________________________________________________________
JASAL
http://www.nla.gov.au/openpublish/index.php/jasal

Bill Mulligan

Sender: The Irish Diaspora Studies List
From: "Miller, Kerby A."
Subject: Re: County identity & the Irish diaspora.
In-Reply-To:
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I can't access it. Will the article eventually have a print publication?
Where and when?
Thanks,
Kerby Miller

On 7/4/13 4:50 AM, "Scully, Marc (Dr.)" wrote:

>Dear all,
>
>This is just to alert list members that I have a new article out in Irish
>Studies Review on county identity in the Irish diaspora. It's called
>"BIFFOs, jackeens and Dagenham Yanks: county identity, =B3authenticity=B2 =
and
>the Irish diaspora" and it's available online here:
>http://dx.doi.org/10.1080/09670882.2013.808874
>
>Abstract:
>
>Despite being an everyday point of reference in Irish discourse, the
>extent to which the county serves as a locus of identification has been
>oddly overlooked in the Irish studies literature. In particular, the
>persistence of identification with the county of origin post-migration
>offers new insights on the construction and maintenance of identity
>within the Irish diaspora. Drawing on my PhD research on discourses of
>authenticity and identity among the Irish in England, this article
>investigates the ways in which county identity is invoked both by Irish
>migrants and those of Irish descent. It illustrates how the county is
>used as a rhetorical tool to situate the speaker within discourses of
>belonging and authenticity, but how this may also act as a constraint on
>the articulation of a collective, diasporic identity. It argues for a
>greater research focus on translocalism within the context of changing
>Ireland=ADdiaspora relations.
>
>
>
>Any questions, comments or feedback welcome.
>
>Regards,
>
>Marc Scully.
>
>
>Dr Marc Scully
>Research Associate and Interim Project Manager
>The Impact of Diasporas on the Making of Britain
>University of Leicester
>University Road
>Leicester
>LE1 7RH

Sender: The Irish Diaspora Studies List
From: Bryan McGovern
Subject: Patrick Lynch and the Irish American
In-Reply-To:
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I'm trying to locate biographical information on Patrick Lynch of Lynch, Co=
le, and Co., editor of the Irish-American (1849) in New York. He is mentio=
ned in a number of sources but there is seemingly little on his background.=
Any suggestions would be appreciated. Thanks.

sl=C3=A1inte,
bpm

************************************
Bryan P. McGovern, Ph.D.
Associate Professor of History and Philosophy
Coordinator of History Education
Kennesaw State University
Department of History and Philosophy
1000 Chastain Road -- MD 2206
Kennesaw, Georgia 30144
678-797-2296 (office)
770-423-6432 (fax)
************************************

Sender: The Irish Diaspora Studies List
From: Donal Mccracken
Subject: Re: New Book: Teddy luther's War
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

MIME-Version: 1.0
Message-ID: {decoded}Dear Bill,

As it is unlikely to reach the Dublin bookshops, I thought there might be some diaspora list folk who might be interested in Teddy Luther's War:

http://www.30degreessouth.co.za/teddy_luthers_war.html
======= Please find our Email Disclaimer here-->: http://www.ukzn.ac.za/disclaimer =======

Sender: The Irish Diaspora Studies List
From: Bill Mulligan
Subject: [Fwd: Re: Teddy Luther' War]
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---------------------------- Original Message ----------------------------
Subject: Re: Teddy Luther' War
From: "Donal Mccracken"
Date: Mon, July 15, 2013 6:26 am
To: "Billmulligan[at]MURRAY-KY.NET"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------

Sorry Bill, my message was sent off by accident before I completed it.

The book is the edited diary of a German-American who at the age of 19
(1900) left New York to travel to the Transvaal Republic to fight for the
Boers against the British, and ended up in an Irish commando. He was
killed near the Portuguese Mozambique border, probably by Australian
colonial troops, in September 1900, less than a week before Major MacBride
led his men across the frontier to safety. Two note books were found among
Luther's effects by British Military Intelligence and shipped back to
their headquarters in London. Within 10 weeks of Luther's death it had
been published for propaganda reasons. Only two copies are now known to
exist.

It is not a war reminiscence in the sense of something written after the
event, but day-to-day notes about what was going on in the Irish commando,
where it was, who it encountered and what fighting it did. No other such
record has survived.

I have also included a list (with notes) on every known member of the two
Irish commandos.

http://www.30degreessouth.co.za/teddy_luthers_war.html

I hope that some members of the Diaspora list will be interested in the
volume.

Kind regards

Donal

Professor Donal McCracken
Senior Professor & F.R.Hist.Soc.
Academic Leader: Research & Postgraduate Studies
School of Applied Human Sciences
University of KwaZulu-Natal
Durban
4041
South Africa


Office: 031-260 2899
Mobile: 072-385-6457
e-mail: mccrackend[at]ukzn.ac.za

======= Please find our Email Disclaimer here-->:
http://www.ukzn.ac.za/disclaimer =======


William H. Mulligan, Jr.
Professor of History
Murray State University
Murray KY 42071-3341 USA
1-270-809-6571 (phone)
1-270-809-6587 (fax)

Sender: The Irish Diaspora Studies List
From: Patrick Maume
Subject: Re: [Fwd: Re: Teddy Luther' War]
In-Reply-To:
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Message-ID:

From: Patrick Maume
Was he with Arthur Lynch's commando or John MacBride's?
Best wishes,
Patrick


On Mon, Jul 15, 2013 at 5:54 PM, Bill Mulligan
wrote:

> ---------------------------- Original Message ----------------------------
> Subject: Re: Teddy Luther' War
> From: "Donal Mccracken"
> Date: Mon, July 15, 2013 6:26 am
> To: "Billmulligan[at]MURRAY-KY.NET"
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Sorry Bill, my message was sent off by accident before I completed it.
>
> The book is the edited diary of a German-American who at the age of 19
> (1900) left New York to travel to the Transvaal Republic to fight for the
> Boers against the British, and ended up in an Irish commando. He was
> killed near the Portuguese Mozambique border, probably by Australian
> colonial troops, in September 1900, less than a week before Major MacBride
> led his men across the frontier to safety. Two note books were found among
> Luther's effects by British Military Intelligence and shipped back to
> their headquarters in London. Within 10 weeks of Luther's death it had
> been published for propaganda reasons. Only two copies are now known to
> exist.
>
> It is not a war reminiscence in the sense of something written after the
> event, but day-to-day notes about what was going on in the Irish commando,
> where it was, who it encountered and what fighting it did. No other such
> record has survived.
>
> I have also included a list (with notes) on every known member of the two
> Irish commandos.
>
> http://www.30degreessouth.co.za/teddy_luthers_war.html
>
> I hope that some members of the Diaspora list will be interested in the
> volume.
>
> Kind regards
>
> Donal
>
> Professor Donal McCracken
> Senior Professor & F.R.Hist.Soc.
> Academic Leader: Research & Postgraduate Studies
> School of Applied Human Sciences
> University of KwaZulu-Natal
> Durban
> 4041
> South Africa
>
>
> Office: 031-260 2899
> Mobile: 072-385-6457
> e-mail: mccrackend[at]ukzn.ac.za
>
> ======= Please find our Email Disclaimer here-->:
> http://www.ukzn.ac.za/disclaimer =======
>
>
> William H. Mulligan, Jr.
> Professor of History
> Murray State University
> Murray KY 42071-3341 USA
> 1-270-809-6571 (phone)
> 1-270-809-6587 (fax)
>

Sender: The Irish Diaspora Studies List
From: Donal Mccracken
Subject: Re: [Fwd: Re: Teddy Luther' War]
In-Reply-To:
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Message-ID:

Which commando? A good question, as both commandos were very different, and=
in fact Lynch's outfit had a large proportion of members who were not Iris=
h - colonial or home-grown.

Luther joined the Colonel Blake/Major MacBride commando in May 1900 after i=
t left Ladysmith in Natal and was fighting in the front line at Brandford i=
n the Orange Free State. The diary chronicles the retreat across the veld t=
o the Vaal River and on to Johannesburg and Pretoria - with Lord Roberts' a=
rmy close on its heels. The Irish blew up many of the railway bridges and h=
ad several very narrow escapes from British artillery and cavalry. In Johan=
nesburg many of the Irish disappeared into the backstreets of Fordsburg, so=
me being picked up by British Military Intelligence but many quietly making=
their escape out of the country. The rump of the commando joined the retre=
at along the railway line eastwards from Pretoria towards the Mozambique bo=
rder. At this point Blake jumps ship and leaves the commando to its fate an=
d MacBride is in sole command, a job he did extremely well in impossible ci=
rcumstances. From being 350/400 in strength, they were probably down to abo=
ut a hundred now, including the Chicago Irish who had travelled out separat=
ely from Luther.

Luther clearly had great respect for MacBride and the two of them seem to h=
ave got on well. There is a lovely entry in the diary when in a thunder sto=
rm with the rain pouring down the two men entered the deserted town of Midd=
elburg (where Arthur Griffith had edited a newspaper two year before) in se=
arch of food. Eventually, soaked to the skin, they found the Commercial Hot=
el, where all to be had was a single tin of sardines.

The rump of the Irish commando fought at the last formal battle of the war =
(Diamond Hill) and from then on it was mainly sniper work against the 'khak=
is'. Food and clothing was short, and many of the horses had died reducing =
most of the Irish to footsloggers. Luther was lucky in gaining a new horse =
after his old one, Shorty Kelly, was killed. In the region of the great pas=
ses, which divide the high veld from the subtropical low veld, the Irish we=
re left exposed on a ridge when the main Boer force retreated without warni=
ng. Some escaped by Teddy Luther and Dan O'Hara from New York were seriousl=
y wounded, captured and subsequently died. The site of their capture has ch=
anged little in 113 years.

The original published diary is only 54 pages in length. All attempts to tr=
ace the original have failed. We do not know if it was written in English o=
r German, or if it was interfered with by British Military Intelligence (wh=
ich incidentally was run by the Irishman Major General Ardagh). However, t=
he diary rings true in many respects: location and dates; named members men=
tioned; the Boer officers encountered and so on. Luther writes in a lively =
fashion and there is an immediacy about the entries. It is just a great pit=
y that this young lad got himself killed in a war which had nothing to do w=
ith him and which he had no reason to get involved in.

Donal

-----Original Message-----
From: The Irish Diaspora Studies List [mailto:IR-D[at]JISCMAIL.AC.UK] On Behal=
f Of Patrick Maume
Sent: 15 July 2013 10:06 PM
To: IR-D[at]JISCMAIL.AC.UK
Subject: Re: [IR-D] [Fwd: Re: Teddy Luther' War]

From: Patrick Maume
Was he with Arthur Lynch's commando or John MacBride's?
Best wishes,
Patrick


On Mon, Jul 15, 2013 at 5:54 PM, Bill Mulligan
wrote:

> ---------------------------- Original Message
> ----------------------------
> Subject: Re: Teddy Luther' War
> From: "Donal Mccracken"
> Date: Mon, July 15, 2013 6:26 am
> To: "Billmulligan[at]MURRAY-KY.NET"
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> ----
>
> Sorry Bill, my message was sent off by accident before I completed it.
>
> The book is the edited diary of a German-American who at the age of 19
> (1900) left New York to travel to the Transvaal Republic to fight for
> the Boers against the British, and ended up in an Irish commando. He
> was killed near the Portuguese Mozambique border, probably by
> Australian colonial troops, in September 1900, less than a week before
> Major MacBride led his men across the frontier to safety. Two note
> books were found among Luther's effects by British Military
> Intelligence and shipped back to their headquarters in London. Within
> 10 weeks of Luther's death it had been published for propaganda
> reasons. Only two copies are now known to exist.
>
> It is not a war reminiscence in the sense of something written after
> the event, but day-to-day notes about what was going on in the Irish
> commando, where it was, who it encountered and what fighting it did.
> No other such record has survived.
>
> I have also included a list (with notes) on every known member of the
> two Irish commandos.
>
> http://www.30degreessouth.co.za/teddy_luthers_war.html
>
> I hope that some members of the Diaspora list will be interested in
> the volume.
>
> Kind regards
>
> Donal
>
> Professor Donal McCracken
> Senior Professor & F.R.Hist.Soc.
> Academic Leader: Research & Postgraduate Studies School of Applied
> Human Sciences University of KwaZulu-Natal Durban
> 4041
> South Africa
>
>
> Office: 031-260 2899
> Mobile: 072-385-6457
> e-mail: mccrackend[at]ukzn.ac.za
>
> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D Please find our Email Disclaimer here-->:
> http://www.ukzn.ac.za/disclaimer =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
>
>
> William H. Mulligan, Jr.
> Professor of History
> Murray State University
> Murray KY 42071-3341 USA
> 1-270-809-6571 (phone)
> 1-270-809-6587 (fax)
>
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D Please find our Email Disclaimer here-->: http://www.=
ukzn.ac.za/disclaimer =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D

Sender: The Irish Diaspora Studies List
From: "Thomas J. Archdeacon"
Organization: D/History, U. Wisconsin -- Madison
Subject: Re: [Fwd: Re: Teddy Luther' War]
In-Reply-To:
MIME-version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable
Message-ID:

This undoubtedly is a na=EFve question, but why was British Military
Intelligence interested in publishing Luther's account? Did it name
"persons of interest" of whom the British were unaware? Did it, from =
the
British point of view, confirm the "perfidy" of the Boers and their
supporters?

Tom Archdeacon

-----Original Message-----
From: The Irish Diaspora Studies List [mailto:IR-D[at]JISCMAIL.AC.UK] On =
Behalf
Of Donal Mccracken
Sent: Tuesday, July 16, 2013 5:08 AM
To: IR-D[at]JISCMAIL.AC.UK
Subject: Re: [IR-D] [Fwd: Re: Teddy Luther' War]

Which commando? A good question, as both commandos were very different, =
and
in fact Lynch's outfit had a large proportion of members who were not =
Irish
- colonial or home-grown.

Luther joined the Colonel Blake/Major MacBride commando in May 1900 =
after it
left Ladysmith in Natal and was fighting in the front line at Brandford =
in
the Orange Free State. The diary chronicles the retreat across the veld =
to
the Vaal River and on to Johannesburg and Pretoria - with Lord Roberts' =
army
close on its heels. The Irish blew up many of the railway bridges and =
had
several very narrow escapes from British artillery and cavalry. In
Johannesburg many of the Irish disappeared into the backstreets of
Fordsburg, some being picked up by British Military Intelligence but =
many
quietly making their escape out of the country. The rump of the commando
joined the retreat along the railway line eastwards from Pretoria =
towards
the Mozambique border. At this point Blake jumps ship and leaves the
commando to its fate and MacBride is in sole command, a job he did =
extremely
well in impossible circumstances. From being 350/400 in strength, they =
were
probably down to about a hundred now, including the Chicago Irish who =
had
travelled out separately from Luther.

Luther clearly had great respect for MacBride and the two of them seem =
to
have got on well. There is a lovely entry in the diary when in a thunder
storm with the rain pouring down the two men entered the deserted town =
of
Middelburg (where Arthur Griffith had edited a newspaper two year =
before) in
search of food. Eventually, soaked to the skin, they found the =
Commercial
Hotel, where all to be had was a single tin of sardines.

The rump of the Irish commando fought at the last formal battle of the =
war
(Diamond Hill) and from then on it was mainly sniper work against the
'khakis'. Food and clothing was short, and many of the horses had died
reducing most of the Irish to footsloggers. Luther was lucky in gaining =
a
new horse after his old one, Shorty Kelly, was killed. In the region of =
the
great passes, which divide the high veld from the subtropical low veld, =
the
Irish were left exposed on a ridge when the main Boer force retreated
without warning. Some escaped by Teddy Luther and Dan O'Hara from New =
York
were seriously wounded, captured and subsequently died. The site of =
their
capture has changed little in 113 years.

The original published diary is only 54 pages in length. All attempts to
trace the original have failed. We do not know if it was written in =
English
or German, or if it was interfered with by British Military Intelligence
(which incidentally was run by the Irishman Major General Ardagh). =
However,
the diary rings true in many respects: location and dates; named members
mentioned; the Boer officers encountered and so on. Luther writes in a
lively fashion and there is an immediacy about the entries. It is just a
great pity that this young lad got himself killed in a war which had =
nothing
to do with him and which he had no reason to get involved in.

Donal

-----Original Message-----
From: The Irish Diaspora Studies List [mailto:IR-D[at]JISCMAIL.AC.UK] On =
Behalf
Of Patrick Maume
Sent: 15 July 2013 10:06 PM
To: IR-D[at]JISCMAIL.AC.UK
Subject: Re: [IR-D] [Fwd: Re: Teddy Luther' War]

From: Patrick Maume
Was he with Arthur Lynch's commando or John MacBride's?
Best wishes,
Patrick


On Mon, Jul 15, 2013 at 5:54 PM, Bill Mulligan
wrote:

> ---------------------------- Original Message
> ----------------------------
> Subject: Re: Teddy Luther' War
> From: "Donal Mccracken"
> Date: Mon, July 15, 2013 6:26 am
> To: "Billmulligan[at]MURRAY-KY.NET"
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> ----
>
> Sorry Bill, my message was sent off by accident before I completed it.
>
> The book is the edited diary of a German-American who at the age of 19
> (1900) left New York to travel to the Transvaal Republic to fight for=20
> the Boers against the British, and ended up in an Irish commando. He=20
> was killed near the Portuguese Mozambique border, probably by=20
> Australian colonial troops, in September 1900, less than a week before =

> Major MacBride led his men across the frontier to safety. Two note=20
> books were found among Luther's effects by British Military=20
> Intelligence and shipped back to their headquarters in London. Within
> 10 weeks of Luther's death it had been published for propaganda=20
> reasons. Only two copies are now known to exist.
>
> It is not a war reminiscence in the sense of something written after=20
> the event, but day-to-day notes about what was going on in the Irish=20
> commando, where it was, who it encountered and what fighting it did.
> No other such record has survived.
>
> I have also included a list (with notes) on every known member of the=20
> two Irish commandos.
>
> http://www.30degreessouth.co.za/teddy_luthers_war.html
>
> I hope that some members of the Diaspora list will be interested in=20
> the volume.
>
> Kind regards
>
> Donal
>
> Professor Donal McCracken
> Senior Professor & F.R.Hist.Soc.
> Academic Leader: Research & Postgraduate Studies School of Applied=20
> Human Sciences University of KwaZulu-Natal Durban
> 4041
> South Africa
>
>
> Office: 031-260 2899
> Mobile: 072-385-6457
> e-mail: mccrackend[at]ukzn.ac.za
>
> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D Please find our Email Disclaimer here-->:
> http://www.ukzn.ac.za/disclaimer =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
>
>
> William H. Mulligan, Jr.
> Professor of History
> Murray State University
> Murray KY 42071-3341 USA
> 1-270-809-6571 (phone)
> 1-270-809-6587 (fax)
>
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D Please find our Email Disclaimer here-->:
http://www.ukzn.ac.za/disclaimer =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D

Sender: The Irish Diaspora Studies List
From: Bill Mulligan
Subject: CFP: ECONOMIC AND SOCIAL HISTORY SOCIETY OF IRELAND, Galway 2013
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Message-ID:

CALL FOR PAPERS=20

=20

=20

ANNUAL CONFERENCE=20

of the=20

ECONOMIC AND SOCIAL HISTORY SOCIETY OF IRELAND 2013=20

=20

=20

National University of Ireland, GALWAY=20

=20

Friday 22nd and Saturday 23rd November 2013=20

=20

Plenary speaker (Connell Memorial Lecture)=20

Prof. Cormac =D3 Gr=E1da=20

=20

Papers on all aspects of the economic and social history of Ireland=20

are welcome. Please send proposals for papers to:=20

=20

Niall =D3 Cios=E1in (niall.ociosain[at]nuigalway.ie) or=20

Caitriona Clear (caitriona.clear[at]nuigalway.ie)=20

=20

Proposals should include an abstract of 100-250 words, a very brief=20

CV and full contact details.=20

=20

Deadline for receipt of proposals: July 31st, 2013.

=20

Bill

=20

William H. Mulligan, Jr.=20

Professor of History

Moderator, Irish Diaspora Discussion List [IR-D[at]jiscmail.ac.uk]=20

Murray State University=20

Murray KY 42071-3341 USA

office phone 1-270-809-6571

dept phone 1-270-809-2231

fax 1-270-809-6587

=20

Sender: The Irish Diaspora Studies List
From: Bill Mulligan
Subject: CFP: Irish Centre for the Histories of Labour and Class
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Message-ID:

CALL FOR PAPERS



Inaugural Conference of the Irish Centre for the Histories of

Labour and Class (ICHLC)



'Class, Conflict and Culture'



National University of Ireland, Galway



Thursday 21st and Friday 22nd November 2013



Suggested themes include, but are not limited to, the following: labour
struggles &

political mobilisations; experiencing & resisting poverty;
institutionalisation of

children & adults; class & gender; labour & theatre; working-class life in

autobiography, literature & art; power & society; labour, class & archives;
digital

history; mobile labour; and transnational classes.



While the principal focus of the conference will be on Ireland, and on
communities of

Irish people in other countries, we are encouraging submissions unrelated to
Ireland

which contribute methodologically or theoretically to the study of labour
and class.

Proposals and panels are invited from all disciplines and postgraduate
students are

particularly encouraged to apply.



Please send proposals to Sarah-Anne Buckley, at
sarahanne.buckley[at]nuigalway.ie. Proposals should

be 150-300 words. Deadline for receipt of proposals: August 9th, 2013.









Bill

William H. Mulligan, Jr.

Professor of History

Moderator, Irish Diaspora Discussion List [IR-D[at]jiscmail.ac.uk]

Murray State University

Murray KY 42071-3341 USA

office phone 1-270-809-6571

dept phone 1-270-809-2231

fax 1-270-809-6587

Sender: The Irish Diaspora Studies List
From: "Thomas J. Archdeacon"
Organization: D/History, U. Wisconsin -- Madison
Subject: Re: [Fwd: Re: Teddy Luther' War]
In-Reply-To:
MIME-version: 1.0
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
Content-type: text/plain; CHARSET=US-ASCII
Message-ID:

Thanks to Donal for that informative answer to my question.

Tom

Sender: The Irish Diaspora Studies List
From: Donal Mccracken
Subject: Re: [Fwd: Re: Teddy Luther' War]
In-Reply-To:
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Message-ID:

Why did British Military Intelligence publish Luther's diary of his experie=
nce in the Irish commando? I do not know for certain as no official corresp=
ondence on the diary has emerged among the Military Governor's papers in Pr=
etoria or the War Office papers in London, nor indeed in Major-General Arda=
gh's private papers. I have been looking since the early 1990s.



But Military Intelligence did publish odds and ends, including Boer army li=
st; List of Germans, Frenchmen, etc., other than British subjects, who have=
taken the oath of allegiance to the Transvaal Government; List of Transvaa=
l commandos and their approximate strength on 1 May 1901; Translations from=
foreign journals relating to the recent war in South Africa; and Translati=
ons of Boer documents forwarded to the War office by director Military Inte=
lligence. Most significant was Military notes on the Dutch republics of Sou=
th Africa, an important document produced by Ardagh before the war and unre=
ad by the generals. BMI also produced maps. All done on an annual budget of=
=A311 000 (the Transvaal Intelligence Department had =A3270 000 annual to =
play with).



BMI used the Anglo-Boer War to establish itself as a significant contributo=
r to a war effort. It was something of a dry-run for the Great War 12 years=
later. Cronj=E9's surrender at Paardeberg was in no small way due to their=
work. They started refining their techniques regarding censorship. They em=
ployed a large number of spies and field officers. They interfered with the=
250-strong press corps (some of whom were Irish) which followed Roberts an=
d his circus up into the Orange Free State and then into the Transvaal.



But why publish Luther's diary? First, the diary did contain 'useful' refer=
ences to embarrass the 'traitorous Irish', as opposed to the 30 000-strong =
members of the 11 Irish regiments on the British side. There are references=
in the diary to drunkenness, to fisticuffs, to a lack of discipline, to du=
m-dum bullets and (perhaps most important) to the hopelessness of the Boer =
military situation. Then there is the issue about what BMI did with the sma=
ll 54-page book. This foxed me for many years, until I stumbled on a copy i=
n the library of the military archives in Stockholm. The only other copy kn=
own to have survived until then was in the old War Office Library. The Swed=
ish copy had previously been in the library of a man called Erland Mossberg=
, who eventually became a Swedish diplomat and Swedish defense attach=E9 to=
the RAF, but who at the time was a war correspondent for the Stockholm Tid=
ning with the British army. He must have been given a copy by one of Ardagh=
's officers. Journalists attached to Field-Marshal Roberts were carefully n=
urtured by BMI: They got free hay for their horses; they got rations; often=
free grog; and a supply of (frequently dubious) information. I think that =
Luther's diary was part of this exercise.



Remember also that Griffith, Connolly and Maud Gonne were stirring up troub=
le back in Ireland. Ardagh was made a scapegoat for the early British rever=
ses in the war. This quiet Waterford man from Camragh House in Stradbally c=
annot but have been aware of what was going on at home in Ireland. A diary,=
perhaps altered or adapted - perhaps not, cannot but have been seen as a u=
seful tool against the pro-Boer lobby in Dublin.



I would add that of all the hundreds of Boer War diaries and accounts publi=
shed at the time or shortly after the war I have never come on one to rival=
Luther's in its liveliness. And it is quite amusing in parts. He refers to=
himself as 'white trash'; he admits to dropping his revolver when retreati=
ng on his horse at speed; to having a punch-up with the commando's cook; to=
causing a bag of bullets to explode because they were left too close to th=
e camp fire and so on. Written in the saddle - staccato - with some of the =
entries meaningless to all but the writer.



I wonder when BMI started interfering directly in Ireland?



Donal



-----Original Message-----
From: The Irish Diaspora Studies List [mailto:IR-D[at]JISCMAIL.AC.UK] On Behal=
f Of Thomas J. Archdeacon
Sent: 16 July 2013 05:14 PM
To: IR-D[at]JISCMAIL.AC.UK
Subject: Re: [IR-D] [Fwd: Re: Teddy Luther' War]



This undoubtedly is a na=EFve question, but why was British Military Intell=
igence interested in publishing Luther's account? Did it name "persons of =
interest" of whom the British were unaware? Did it, from the British point=
of view, confirm the "perfidy" of the Boers and their supporters?



Tom Archdeacon



-----Original Message-----

From: The Irish Diaspora Studies List [mailto:IR-D[at]JISCMAIL.AC.UK] On Behal=
f Of Donal Mccracken

Sent: Tuesday, July 16, 2013 5:08 AM

To: IR-D[at]JISCMAIL.AC.UK

Subject: Re: [IR-D] [Fwd: Re: Teddy Luther' War]



Which commando? A good question, as both commandos were very different, and=
in fact Lynch's outfit had a large proportion of members who were not Iris=
h

- colonial or home-grown.



Luther joined the Colonel Blake/Major MacBride commando in May 1900 after i=
t left Ladysmith in Natal and was fighting in the front line at Brandford i=
n the Orange Free State. The diary chronicles the retreat across the veld t=
o the Vaal River and on to Johannesburg and Pretoria - with Lord Roberts' a=
rmy close on its heels. The Irish blew up many of the railway bridges and h=
ad several very narrow escapes from British artillery and cavalry. In Johan=
nesburg many of the Irish disappeared into the backstreets of Fordsburg, so=
me being picked up by British Military Intelligence but many quietly making=
their escape out of the country. The rump of the commando joined the retre=
at along the railway line eastwards from Pretoria towards the Mozambique bo=
rder. At this point Blake jumps ship and leaves the commando to its fate an=
d MacBride is in sole command, a job he did extremely well in impossible ci=
rcumstances. From being 350/400 in strength, they were probably down to abo=
ut a hundred now, including the Chicago Irish who had travelled out separat=
ely from Luther.



Luther clearly had great respect for MacBride and the two of them seem to h=
ave got on well. There is a lovely entry in the diary when in a thunder sto=
rm with the rain pouring down the two men entered the deserted town of Midd=
elburg (where Arthur Griffith had edited a newspaper two year before) in se=
arch of food. Eventually, soaked to the skin, they found the Commercial Hot=
el, where all to be had was a single tin of sardines.



The rump of the Irish commando fought at the last formal battle of the war =
(Diamond Hill) and from then on it was mainly sniper work against the 'khak=
is'. Food and clothing was short, and many of the horses had died reducing =
most of the Irish to footsloggers. Luther was lucky in gaining a new horse =
after his old one, Shorty Kelly, was killed. In the region of the great pas=
ses, which divide the high veld from the subtropical low veld, the Irish we=
re left exposed on a ridge when the main Boer force retreated without warni=
ng. Some escaped by Teddy Luther and Dan O'Hara from New York were seriousl=
y wounded, captured and subsequently died. The site of their capture has ch=
anged little in 113 years.



The original published diary is only 54 pages in length. All attempts to tr=
ace the original have failed. We do not know if it was written in English o=
r German, or if it was interfered with by British Military Intelligence (wh=
ich incidentally was run by the Irishman Major General Ardagh). However, t=
he diary rings true in many respects: location and dates; named members men=
tioned; the Boer officers encountered and so on. Luther writes in a lively =
fashion and there is an immediacy about the entries. It is just a great pit=
y that this young lad got himself killed in a war which had nothing to do w=
ith him and which he had no reason to get involved in.



Donal



-----Original Message-----

From: The Irish Diaspora Studies List [mailto:IR-D[at]JISCMAIL.AC.UK] On Behal=
f Of Patrick Maume

Sent: 15 July 2013 10:06 PM

To: IR-D[at]JISCMAIL.AC.UK

Subject: Re: [IR-D] [Fwd: Re: Teddy Luther' War]



From: Patrick Maume

Was he with Arthur Lynch's commando or John MacBride's?

Best wishes,

Patrick





On Mon, Jul 15, 2013 at 5:54 PM, Bill Mulligan

>wrote:



> ---------------------------- Original Message

> ----------------------------

> Subject: Re: Teddy Luther' War

> From: "Donal Mccracken"

> Date: Mon, July 15, 2013 6:26 am

> To: "Billmulligan[at]MURRAY-KY.NET"

> ----------------------------------------------------------------------

> ----

>

> Sorry Bill, my message was sent off by accident before I completed it.

>

> The book is the edited diary of a German-American who at the age of 19

> (1900) left New York to travel to the Transvaal Republic to fight for

> the Boers against the British, and ended up in an Irish commando. He

> was killed near the Portuguese Mozambique border, probably by

> Australian colonial troops, in September 1900, less than a week before

> Major MacBride led his men across the frontier to safety. Two note

> books were found among Luther's effects by British Military

> Intelligence and shipped back to their headquarters in London. Within

> 10 weeks of Luther's death it had been published for propaganda

> reasons. Only two copies are now known to exist.

>

> It is not a war reminiscence in the sense of something written after

> the event, but day-to-day notes about what was going on in the Irish

> commando, where it was, who it encountered and what fighting it did.

> No other such record has survived.

>

> I have also included a list (with notes) on every known member of the

> two Irish commandos.

>

> http://www.30degreessouth.co.za/teddy_luthers_war.html

>

> I hope that some members of the Diaspora list will be interested in

> the volume.

>

> Kind regards

>

> Donal

>

> Professor Donal McCracken

> Senior Professor & F.R.Hist.Soc.

> Academic Leader: Research & Postgraduate Studies School of Applied

> Human Sciences University of KwaZulu-Natal Durban

> 4041

> South Africa

>

>

> Office: 031-260 2899

> Mobile: 072-385-6457

> e-mail: mccrackend[at]ukzn.ac.za>

>

> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D Please find our Email Disclaimer here-->:

> http://www.ukzn.ac.za/disclaimer =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D

>

>

> William H. Mulligan, Jr.

> Professor of History

> Murray State University

> Murray KY 42071-3341 USA

> 1-270-809-6571 (phone)

> 1-270-809-6587 (fax)

>

=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D Please find our Email Disclaimer here-->:

http://www.ukzn.ac.za/disclaimer =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D

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ukzn.ac.za/disclaimer =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D

Sender: The Irish Diaspora Studies List
From: Bill Mulligan
Subject: ART: "Beaten to Death by Irish Murderers"
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The list may find this of interest.



Gil Ribak. "'Beaten to Death by Irish Murderers': The Death of Sadie Dellon
(1918) and Jewish Images of the Irish." Journal of American Ethnic History
32, no. 4 (Summer 2013).

Abstract:

The article discusses the death of Sadie Dellon, a 13-year-old Jewish girl
living on 125th street in West Harlem, New York City, who apparently
committed suicide after being attacked for flying a Zionist flag during a
block party. It uses Dellon's death to examine American Jews' images of
Irish Americans. The author comments on Dellon's image as a martyr and the
belief that she was murdered. The Jewish image of the Irish as antisemitic,
violent, and drunk is explored and Jewish relations with Gentiles in Eastern
Europe are considered.





Link to full text pdf:
http://content.ebscohost.com/pdf29_30/pdf/2013/JEN/01Jun13/88379514.pdf?T=P

&P=AN&K=88379514&S=R&D=a9h&EbscoContent=dGJyMNXb4kSep7U4yOvqOLCmr0uep69Ssqy4
SbCWxWXS&ContentCustomer=dGJyMPGuskqyrLNOuePfgeyx44Dt6fIA



Bill Mulligan

Sender: The Irish Diaspora Studies List
From: Sean Williams
Subject: Re: "home where I've never been"
In-Reply-To:
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Jim, should these be published sources, or anecdotes?

Sean Williams
Ethnomusicology/Irish Studies
Evergreen State College
Olympia, WA 98505

On Jul 22, 2013, at 2:38 PM, Rogers, James S. wrote:

> For purposes of a lecture I'm giving this autumn, I would be grateful =
to be pointed to instances in which persons visiting Ireland report that =
they felt like they had "come home to a place they'd never been before" =
(to quote John Denver in the 1973 song "Rocky Mountain High).
> I've collected quite a few such instances already, but I am sure there =
are countless others. If you prefer, you can reply to me at =
jrogers[at]stthomas.edu
> Thanks in advance,
> Jim Rogers
>=20
> James S. Rogers
> UST Center for Irish Studies
> Editor, New Hibernia Review
> 2115 Summit Ave, #5008
> St Paul MN 55105-1096
> (651) 962-5662

Sender: The Irish Diaspora Studies List
From: "Rogers, James S."
Subject: "home where I've never been"
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
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For purposes of a lecture I'm giving this autumn, I would be grateful to be=
pointed to instances in which persons visiting Ireland report that they f=
elt like they had "come home to a place they'd never been before" (to quo=
te John Denver in the 1973 song "Rocky Mountain High).
I've collected quite a few such instances already, but I am sure there are =
countless others. If you prefer, you can reply to me at jrogers[at]stthomas.e=
du
Thanks in advance,
Jim Rogers

James S. Rogers
UST Center for Irish Studies
Editor, New Hibernia Review
2115 Summit Ave, #5008
St Paul MN 55105-1096
(651) 962-5662

Sender: The Irish Diaspora Studies List
From: "Rogers, James S."
Subject: Re: "home where I've never been"
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preferably published sources -- good question, sorry I did not think to sp=
ecify

________________________________________
From: The Irish Diaspora Studies List [IR-D[at]JISCMAIL.AC.UK] on behalf of Se=
an Williams [williams[at]EVERGREEN.EDU]
Sent: Monday, July 22, 2013 6:28 PM
To: IR-D[at]JISCMAIL.AC.UK
Subject: Re: [IR-D] "home where I've never been"

Jim, should these be published sources, or anecdotes?

Sean Williams
Ethnomusicology/Irish Studies
Evergreen State College
Olympia, WA 98505

On Jul 22, 2013, at 2:38 PM, Rogers, James S. wrote:

> For purposes of a lecture I'm giving this autumn, I would be grateful to =
be pointed to instances in which persons visiting Ireland report that they =
felt like they had "come home to a place they'd never been before" (to q=
uote John Denver in the 1973 song "Rocky Mountain High).
> I've collected quite a few such instances already, but I am sure there ar=
e countless others. If you prefer, you can reply to me at jrogers[at]stthomas=
.edu
> Thanks in advance,
> Jim Rogers
>
> James S. Rogers
> UST Center for Irish Studies
> Editor, New Hibernia Review
> 2115 Summit Ave, #5008
> St Paul MN 55105-1096
> (651) 962-5662=

Sender: The Irish Diaspora Studies List
From: DAN MILNER
Subject: 212JA3657127MAR45
In-Reply-To:
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Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
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Message-ID:

A quick search for "no Irish" on the Brooklyn Daily Eagle website...=20
http://eagle.brooklynpubliclibrary.org/Default/Skins/BEagle/Client.asp?Skin=
=3DBEagle&AW=3D1374863710182&AppName=3D2&GZ=3DT
...produces many positive "hits." Alternate, marginally positive searches =
might be "Protestant girl" or "colored only." Both would exclude Catholics=
.

A second thought. Placing an exclusionary advertisement in a newspaper is =
likely to achieve the desired result, viz. no unwanted applications.
While putting a sign in a window might result in broken glass or worse. =
=20

Dan Milner =20

www.stjohns.digication.com/danmilner

--------------------------------------------
On Fri, 7/26/13, Stewart, Bruce wrote:

Subject: Re: [IR-D] Fwd: H-Ethnic: No Irish need apply
To: IR-D[at]JISCMAIL.AC.UK
Date: Friday, July 26, 2013, 9:12 AM
=20
An informative article on the
question of Irish sympathy (or rather lack of it) with the
abolition of slavery in the American Civil War period
published in a recent issue of History Ireland cites 'no
Irish or negroes need apply' as a common window dressing in
New York.
=20
Having recently read amount about false memory syndrome in
mice and men I no longer trust my own impression that I saw
'No Irish need apply' on boarding house advertisements at
Finsbury Station in London when I first went there for
summer work in 1967. I have certainly cited it as a personal
recollection in the past. Bruce
=20
-----Original Message-----
From: The Irish Diaspora Studies List [mailto:IR-D[at]JISCMAIL.AC.UK]
On Behalf Of Dymphna Lonergan
Sent: 25 May 2013 03:26
To: IR-D[at]JISCMAIL.AC.UK
Subject: Re: [IR-D] Fwd: H-Ethnic: No Irish need apply
=20
Let's hope Dr Marion Casey can provide references we can all
follow up. I'd be happy with even one. The only one I've
ever come across is a newspaper report of such a sign in an
English lodging house window, and the report (or it may have
been a letter) was condemnatory. I believe the prejudice
existed and was applied, but our argument is about such
prejudice being officially endorsed by the appearance of a
paid advertisement in a newspaper. At least I believe that
is the thesis we have been trying to prove unsuccessfully to
date.
=20
le gach dea ghu=ED
Dymphna
=20
=20
=20
Dr Dymphna Lonergan
Department of English, Creative Writing, and Australian
Studies
Room 282 Humanities
http://theirishinaustralia.com
=20
Phone 8201 2079
=20
________________________________________
From: The Irish Diaspora Studies List [IR-D[at]JISCMAIL.AC.UK]
on behalf of Miller, Kerby A. [MillerK[at]MISSOURI.EDU]
Sent: 24 May 2013 15:06
To: IR-D[at]JISCMAIL.AC.UK
Subject: Re: [IR-D] Fwd: H-Ethnic: No Irish need apply
=20
Several decades ago, I did extensive but sporadic research
in New York
City newspapers in the 1850s and 1860s, e.g., in the
TRIBUNE, the HERALD,
and, after its inception, the TIMES.=A0 I wasn't looking
for them, but I saw
many "No Irish Need Apply" notices (and several variations
thereof, such
as "Any creed or color except Irish," "No Catholics Need
Apply," etc.).
=20
I'm not Irish or Catholic; I have no dog in this
fight.=A0 But the argument
that anti-Irish discriminatory job notices did not appear
in
mid-19th-century US mainstream newspapers, or were as
extremely rare as
claimed below, is simply not true.
=20
I participated in this absurd argument back in 2002.=A0 I
don't want to
re-engage in what is, I believe, a politically- and
ideologically-driven
debate--a US reflection of the extreme "revisionism" that
dominates Irish
historical studies on the other side of the Atlantic.
=20
Someone who informed me, back ca. 2002, that she also found
numerous such
newspaper notices is Dr. Marian Casey at NYU.=A0 She's
actually has studied
the matter, and fairly recently, whereas my exposure to the
ads was long
ago and merely coincidental to other research I was doing at
the time.
However, I did take verbatim notes on the ads I saw, so my
research wasn't
casual or impressionistic.
=20
Kerby Miller
Curators' Professor of History
University of Missouri
=20
On 5/24/13 8:23 AM, "William Mulligan"
wrote:
=20
>Forwarded from H-Ethnic
>
>Many list members will recall the discussion of this
issue some years ago.
> The full discussion is in the list archives for those
interested.
>
>---------- Forwarded message ----------
>From: Richard Jensen
>Date: Fri, May 24, 2013 at 1:22 AM
>Subject: H-Ethnic: No Irish need apply
>To: H-ETHNIC[at]h-net.msu.edu
>
>
>From: RON LOPEZ
>
>In the not too distant past a discussion on this list
focused on
>discrimination practices aimed at Irish immigrants.
Today a friend
>referred
>to a "No Irish Need Apply" incident in his family
lore.=A0 I mentioned
>having
>seen claims that no evidence of such a statement on
signs in public places
>has been produced. Did my mind/memory recall correctly?
How was the
>discussion resolved?
>Thanks in advance for any response.
>Ron Lopez
>Retired, LACCD
> --
>your editor wrote it -- Richard Jensen, "'No Irish Need
Apply': A Myth of
>Victimization," Journal of Social History 36.2 (2002)
405-429
>
>The NINA slogan was common in Britain and a song written
in London in 1862
>was carried to the US, and became wildly popular among
Irish Americans.
> They all "remembered" the signs but never actually saw
one because no
>signs existed in the US (they did exist in England,
where they originally
>meant no Irish Protestants need apply).=A0 No
archivist, museum or collector
>ever found such a sign, nor a photograph.=A0 However,
you can buy fakes on
>ebay (the fakes are dated Boston Sept. 11, 1915).
>
>My search of over a million want ads turned up two NINA
want ads per ten
>years of newspaper files. Turns out that employment
statistics show there
>is no actual evidence of anti-Irish discrimination in
employment. However
>the myth was central to the Irish identity as victims of
Protestant
>elites,
>with the moral that we Irish must always stick together
(in work gangs,
>politics, unions, Catholic Church).
>
>the article is online at
>rjensen/no-irish.htm>
>>http://**tigger.uic.edu/~rjensen/no-**irish.htm>ensen/no-irish.htm>
>
>RJ
>
>--
=20
________________________________
=20
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Sender: The Irish Diaspora Studies List
From: "Stewart, Bruce"
Subject: Re: Fwd: H-Ethnic: No Irish need apply
In-Reply-To:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
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Message-ID:

An informative article on the question of Irish sympathy (or rather lack of=
it) with the abolition of slavery in the American Civil War period publish=
ed in a recent issue of History Ireland cites 'no Irish or negroes need app=
ly' as a common window dressing in New York.

Having recently read amount about false memory syndrome in mice and men I n=
o longer trust my own impression that I saw 'No Irish need apply' on boardi=
ng house advertisements at Finsbury Station in London when I first went the=
re for summer work in 1967. I have certainly cited it as a personal recolle=
ction in the past. Bruce

-----Original Message-----
From: The Irish Diaspora Studies List [mailto:IR-D[at]JISCMAIL.AC.UK] On Behal=
f Of Dymphna Lonergan
Sent: 25 May 2013 03:26
To: IR-D[at]JISCMAIL.AC.UK
Subject: Re: [IR-D] Fwd: H-Ethnic: No Irish need apply

Let's hope Dr Marion Casey can provide references we can all follow up. I'd=
be happy with even one. The only one I've ever come across is a newspaper =
report of such a sign in an English lodging house window, and the report (o=
r it may have been a letter) was condemnatory. I believe the prejudice exis=
ted and was applied, but our argument is about such prejudice being officia=
lly endorsed by the appearance of a paid advertisement in a newspaper. At l=
east I believe that is the thesis we have been trying to prove unsuccessful=
ly to date.

le gach dea ghu=ED
Dymphna



Dr Dymphna Lonergan
Department of English, Creative Writing, and Australian Studies
Room 282 Humanities
http://theirishinaustralia.com

Phone 8201 2079

________________________________________
From: The Irish Diaspora Studies List [IR-D[at]JISCMAIL.AC.UK] on behalf of Mi=
ller, Kerby A. [MillerK[at]MISSOURI.EDU]
Sent: 24 May 2013 15:06
To: IR-D[at]JISCMAIL.AC.UK
Subject: Re: [IR-D] Fwd: H-Ethnic: No Irish need apply

Several decades ago, I did extensive but sporadic research in New York
City newspapers in the 1850s and 1860s, e.g., in the TRIBUNE, the HERALD,
and, after its inception, the TIMES. I wasn't looking for them, but I saw
many "No Irish Need Apply" notices (and several variations thereof, such
as "Any creed or color except Irish," "No Catholics Need Apply," etc.).

I'm not Irish or Catholic; I have no dog in this fight. But the argument
that anti-Irish discriminatory job notices did not appear in
mid-19th-century US mainstream newspapers, or were as extremely rare as
claimed below, is simply not true.

I participated in this absurd argument back in 2002. I don't want to
re-engage in what is, I believe, a politically- and ideologically-driven
debate--a US reflection of the extreme "revisionism" that dominates Irish
historical studies on the other side of the Atlantic.

Someone who informed me, back ca. 2002, that she also found numerous such
newspaper notices is Dr. Marian Casey at NYU. She's actually has studied
the matter, and fairly recently, whereas my exposure to the ads was long
ago and merely coincidental to other research I was doing at the time.
However, I did take verbatim notes on the ads I saw, so my research wasn't
casual or impressionistic.

Kerby Miller
Curators' Professor of History
University of Missouri

On 5/24/13 8:23 AM, "William Mulligan" wrote:

>Forwarded from H-Ethnic
>
>Many list members will recall the discussion of this issue some years ago.
> The full discussion is in the list archives for those interested.
>
>---------- Forwarded message ----------
>From: Richard Jensen
>Date: Fri, May 24, 2013 at 1:22 AM
>Subject: H-Ethnic: No Irish need apply
>To: H-ETHNIC[at]h-net.msu.edu
>
>
>From: RON LOPEZ
>
>In the not too distant past a discussion on this list focused on
>discrimination practices aimed at Irish immigrants. Today a friend
>referred
>to a "No Irish Need Apply" incident in his family lore. I mentioned
>having
>seen claims that no evidence of such a statement on signs in public places
>has been produced. Did my mind/memory recall correctly? How was the
>discussion resolved?
>Thanks in advance for any response.
>Ron Lopez
>Retired, LACCD
> --
>your editor wrote it -- Richard Jensen, "'No Irish Need Apply': A Myth of
>Victimization," Journal of Social History 36.2 (2002) 405-429
>
>The NINA slogan was common in Britain and a song written in London in 1862
>was carried to the US, and became wildly popular among Irish Americans.
> They all "remembered" the signs but never actually saw one because no
>signs existed in the US (they did exist in England, where they originally
>meant no Irish Protestants need apply). No archivist, museum or collector
>ever found such a sign, nor a photograph. However, you can buy fakes on
>ebay (the fakes are dated Boston Sept. 11, 1915).
>
>My search of over a million want ads turned up two NINA want ads per ten
>years of newspaper files. Turns out that employment statistics show there
>is no actual evidence of anti-Irish discrimination in employment. However
>the myth was central to the Irish identity as victims of Protestant
>elites,
>with the moral that we Irish must always stick together (in work gangs,
>politics, unions, Catholic Church).
>
>the article is online at
>rjensen/no-irish.htm>
>>http://**tigger.uic.edu/~rjensen/no-**irish.htm>ensen/no-irish.htm>
>
>RJ
>
>--

________________________________

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Sender: The Irish Diaspora Studies List
From: "Miller, Kerby A."
Subject: "No Irish [nationalists] need [complain]"
In-Reply-To:
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I wonder, was there more than a coincidental relationship between the "no
anti-Irish-Catholic job discrimination in the US" thesis and the earlier
spate of academic claims that there was "no anti-Irish-Catholic job
discrimination in unionist-run Northern Ireland"? Did they serve the same
ideological or political functions, I wonder?

Kerby Miller

On 7/26/13 1:48 PM, "DAN MILNER" wrote:

>A quick search for "no Irish" on the Brooklyn Daily Eagle website...
>http://eagle.brooklynpubliclibrary.org/Default/Skins/BEagle/Client.asp?Ski
>n=3DBEagle&AW=3D1374863710182&AppName=3D2&GZ=3DT
>...produces many positive "hits." Alternate, marginally positive
>searches might be "Protestant girl" or "colored only." Both would
>exclude Catholics.
>
>A second thought. Placing an exclusionary advertisement in a newspaper
>is likely to achieve the desired result, viz. no unwanted applications.
>While putting a sign in a window might result in broken glass or worse.
> =20
>
>Dan Milner =20
>
>www.stjohns.digication.com/danmilner
>
>--------------------------------------------
>On Fri, 7/26/13, Stewart, Bruce wrote:
>
> Subject: Re: [IR-D] Fwd: H-Ethnic: No Irish need apply
> To: IR-D[at]JISCMAIL.AC.UK
> Date: Friday, July 26, 2013, 9:12 AM
>=20
> An informative article on the
> question of Irish sympathy (or rather lack of it) with the
> abolition of slavery in the American Civil War period
> published in a recent issue of History Ireland cites 'no
> Irish or negroes need apply' as a common window dressing in
> New York.
>=20
> Having recently read amount about false memory syndrome in
> mice and men I no longer trust my own impression that I saw
> 'No Irish need apply' on boarding house advertisements at
> Finsbury Station in London when I first went there for
> summer work in 1967. I have certainly cited it as a personal
> recollection in the past. Bruce
>=20
> -----Original Message-----
> From: The Irish Diaspora Studies List [mailto:IR-D[at]JISCMAIL.AC.UK]
> On Behalf Of Dymphna Lonergan
> Sent: 25 May 2013 03:26
> To: IR-D[at]JISCMAIL.AC.UK
> Subject: Re: [IR-D] Fwd: H-Ethnic: No Irish need apply
>=20
> Let's hope Dr Marion Casey can provide references we can all
> follow up. I'd be happy with even one. The only one I've
> ever come across is a newspaper report of such a sign in an
> English lodging house window, and the report (or it may have
> been a letter) was condemnatory. I believe the prejudice
> existed and was applied, but our argument is about such
> prejudice being officially endorsed by the appearance of a
> paid advertisement in a newspaper. At least I believe that
> is the thesis we have been trying to prove unsuccessfully to
> date.
>=20
> le gach dea ghu=ED
> Dymphna
>=20
>=20
>=20
> Dr Dymphna Lonergan
> Department of English, Creative Writing, and Australian
> Studies
> Room 282 Humanities
> http://theirishinaustralia.com
>=20
> Phone 8201 2079
>=20
> ________________________________________
> From: The Irish Diaspora Studies List [IR-D[at]JISCMAIL.AC.UK]
> on behalf of Miller, Kerby A. [MillerK[at]MISSOURI.EDU]
> Sent: 24 May 2013 15:06
> To: IR-D[at]JISCMAIL.AC.UK
> Subject: Re: [IR-D] Fwd: H-Ethnic: No Irish need apply
>=20
> Several decades ago, I did extensive but sporadic research
> in New York
> City newspapers in the 1850s and 1860s, e.g., in the
> TRIBUNE, the HERALD,
> and, after its inception, the TIMES. I wasn't looking
> for them, but I saw
> many "No Irish Need Apply" notices (and several variations
> thereof, such
> as "Any creed or color except Irish," "No Catholics Need
> Apply," etc.).
>=20
> I'm not Irish or Catholic; I have no dog in this
> fight. But the argument
> that anti-Irish discriminatory job notices did not appear
> in
> mid-19th-century US mainstream newspapers, or were as
> extremely rare as
> claimed below, is simply not true.
>=20
> I participated in this absurd argument back in 2002. I
> don't want to
> re-engage in what is, I believe, a politically- and
> ideologically-driven
> debate--a US reflection of the extreme "revisionism" that
> dominates Irish
> historical studies on the other side of the Atlantic.
>=20
> Someone who informed me, back ca. 2002, that she also found
> numerous such
> newspaper notices is Dr. Marian Casey at NYU. She's
> actually has studied
> the matter, and fairly recently, whereas my exposure to the
> ads was long
> ago and merely coincidental to other research I was doing at
> the time.
> However, I did take verbatim notes on the ads I saw, so my
> research wasn't
> casual or impressionistic.
>=20
> Kerby Miller
> Curators' Professor of History
> University of Missouri
>=20
> On 5/24/13 8:23 AM, "William Mulligan"
> wrote:
>=20
> >Forwarded from H-Ethnic
> >
> >Many list members will recall the discussion of this
> issue some years ago.
> > The full discussion is in the list archives for those
> interested.
> >
> >---------- Forwarded message ----------
> >From: Richard Jensen
> >Date: Fri, May 24, 2013 at 1:22 AM
> >Subject: H-Ethnic: No Irish need apply
> >To: H-ETHNIC[at]h-net.msu.edu
> >
> >
> >From: RON LOPEZ
> >
> >In the not too distant past a discussion on this list
> focused on
> >discrimination practices aimed at Irish immigrants.
> Today a friend
> >referred
> >to a "No Irish Need Apply" incident in his family
> lore. I mentioned
> >having
> >seen claims that no evidence of such a statement on
> signs in public places
> >has been produced. Did my mind/memory recall correctly?
> How was the
> >discussion resolved?
> >Thanks in advance for any response.
> >Ron Lopez
> >Retired, LACCD
> > --
> >your editor wrote it -- Richard Jensen, "'No Irish Need
> Apply': A Myth of
> >Victimization," Journal of Social History 36.2 (2002)
> 405-429
> >
> >The NINA slogan was common in Britain and a song written
> in London in 1862
> >was carried to the US, and became wildly popular among
> Irish Americans.
> > They all "remembered" the signs but never actually saw
> one because no
> >signs existed in the US (they did exist in England,
> where they originally
> >meant no Irish Protestants need apply). No
> archivist, museum or collector
> >ever found such a sign, nor a photograph. However,
> you can buy fakes on
> >ebay (the fakes are dated Boston Sept. 11, 1915).
> >
> >My search of over a million want ads turned up two NINA
> want ads per ten
> >years of newspaper files. Turns out that employment
> statistics show there
> >is no actual evidence of anti-Irish discrimination in
> employment. However
> >the myth was central to the Irish identity as victims of
> Protestant
> >elites,
> >with the moral that we Irish must always stick together
> (in work gangs,
> >politics, unions, Catholic Church).
> >
> >the article is online at
>=20
>>>E
> >rjensen/no-irish.htm>
>=20
>>>http://**tigger.uic.edu/~rjensen/no-**irish.htm>>j
> >>ensen/no-irish.htm>
> >
> >RJ
> >
> >--
>=20
> ________________________________
>=20
> This email and any attachments are confidential and intended
> solely for the use of the addressee and may contain
> information which is covered by legal, professional or other
> privilege. If you have received this email in error please
> notify the system manager at postmaster[at]ulster.ac.uk
> and delete this email immediately. Any views or opinions
> expressed are solely those of the author and do not
> necessarily represent those of the University of Ulster. The
> University's computer systems may be monitored and
> communications carried out on them may be recorded to secure
> the effective operation of the system and for other lawful
> purposes. The University of Ulster does not guarantee that
> this email or any attachments are free from viruses or 100%
> secure. Unless expressly stated in the body of a separate
> attachment, the text of email is not intended to form a
> binding contract. Correspondence to and from the University
> may be subject to requests for disclosure by 3rd parties
> under relevant legislation. The University of Ulster was
> founded by Royal Charter in 1984 and is registered with
> company number RC000726 and VAT registered number
> GB672390524.The primary contact address for the University
> of Ulster in Northern Ireland is,Cromore Road, Coleraine,
> Co. Londonderry BT52 1SA
>=20