Sender: The Irish Diaspora Studies List
From: Patrick O'Sullivan
Subject: Irish America & Corned Beef by Marion R. Casey
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From: casey.marion[at]gmail.com [mailto:casey.marion[at]gmail.com] On Behalf =
Of
Marion Casey
To: The Irish Diaspora Studies List
Cc: Patrick O'Sullivan
Subject: Re: [IR-D] St Patrick's Day Dilemma: Corned beef or bacon and
cabbage?

Below, the more serious version of what I sent to Francis Lam which,
perhaps, better explains why American associates "corned beef & cabbage"
with the Irish.
It is extracted from my forthcoming book on the Irish image in American
popular culture.
=A0
Belated wishes for St. Patrick's Day from New York City!
Marion
=A0
Marion R. Casey
Glucksman Ireland House
New York University


Irish America & Corned Beef by Marion R. Casey, Ph.D. Clinical Assistant
Professor of Irish-American Studies Glucksman Ireland House New York
University =A9 M.R. Casey, 2010 T

he contemporary connection between corned beef and Irish Americans is =
the
result of a number of forces at work over several centuries.

From the 1660s the brined products of the provision trade out of Cork, =
on
Ireland=92s southern coast, were principally butter and herring, usually
destined for the sugar islands in the Caribbean. Ireland did export beef =
but
it was =93salted=94 rather than =93brined=94 (=93corned=94). From the =
1760s there is a
distinct shift, based on demand and price, to exports of pig-meat, =
chiefly
salted bacon. By 1900 Ireland had honed a reputation for high quality =
ham
and bacon, an export niche that meant these products typically cost more =
per
pound than, say, Virginia ham in the American market. On the eve of =
World
War I, the United States was exporting its own meat products to Great
Britain at the same time that it was importing more than 100,000 pounds =
of
Irish bacon and ham.

Corned beef, on the other hand, is beef brisket cured in brine =96 in =
other
words, from a different animal altogether. In the United States, corned =
beef
has been eaten by working class men and women regardless of ethnicity =
since
the nineteenth century. In 1880 it was being sold as far west as Hawaii; =
a
Sacramento household advice column recommended it as an accompaniment to
relish; and it was exported in cans to France. Typically, corned beef =
cost
four cents less per pound than roast beef or steak and a penny less than
salted pork. It was a hearty yet inexpensive cut of beef, a favorite of
miners, heavyweight boxers, and frugal housewives stretching a dollar. =
An
ordinary dinner in an ordinary New York City household in 1912 consisted =
of
oysters on the half shell, corned beef and cabbage, boiled potatoes, =
mustard
pickle followed by coffee ice cream and angel cake with coffee. Georges
Clemenceau reportedly exclaimed, =93Ah, corned beef, I shall never fear =
to eat
you any more=94 after touring the slaughter rooms of the Chicago =
stockyards
with Lawrence Armour in 1922. These two separate meat traditions =96 one =
a
high-end Irish export, the other for the low-end of the American =
domestic
market =96 then become enmeshed in the commercialization of St. =
Patrick=92s Day.
The current argument about authenticity (bacon vs. corned beef) is in
reaction to the evolution of March 17th as a major holiday in the =
American
commercial calendar.

Between 1900 and 1911, one of the motifs adorning St. Patrick=92s Day
postcards was the pig. In the grey area of American popular culture, the
legitimate Irish economic tradition of raising a pig for sale at market =
to
pay one=92s farm rent had been transformed into the derogatory =93Paddy =
with his
pig in the parlor.=94 Soon, pigs were sold as essential novelty items =
for
March 17th and =93pin-the-tail-on-the-pig=94 was promoted as a game for
children=92s parties on that day. Irish Americans vigorously protested =
such an
alignment of their ethnicity with an animal that carried all sorts of
popular connotations about dirt and disease. The response of holiday =
card
manufacturers was to equate the pig with luck as it was in German =
tradition
and, eventually, to substitute the pig with a horseshoe which, in Irish
folklore, warded off evil spirits. By this time much of Irish America =
had
moved beyond mere survival to enjoy the abundant and inexpensive meats
available for sale across the country. They ate pork and beef, salted or
not. It was just as easy to claim =93corned beef=94 as their choice for =
holiday
meals as it was to claim =93pork.=94 When the latter became stigmatized, =
one
became preferable to the other. This shift percolates to the surface of
American popular culture by the 1950s when the association of =
=93Irish=94 with
=93corned beef=94 can begin to be documented in March cookery columns =
and
restaurant menus. The earliest St. Patrick=92s Day card to reference it =
is
1960, usually a good litmus test of trends.

Arguments about authenticity are pointless. Things developed differently =
in
Ireland so that the =93tradition=94 there remains =93bacon and =
cabbage=94 because
there was no comparable American-style commercialization of St. =
Patrick=92s
Day until the 1980s. And the Irish in Ireland did not have to protest, =
as
Irish America did, pig jokes in early radio and cinema through the =
1940s.
=93Corned beef=94 was an all-American dish and, in that respect, it has =
served
Irish America well.

Sender: The Irish Diaspora Studies List
From: Sarah Morgan
Subject: Re: St Patrick's Day Dilemma: Corned beef or bacon and cabbage?
In-Reply-To:
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When I was a child in the 70s=2C my Irish granny cooked bacon and cabbage e=
very day for dinner. Occasionally for a change it would be mince with potat=
oes. Never Irish stew. She lived in a small rural town and bacon was what s=
he could buy unless someone gave her a lift to somewhere bigger. She didn't=
have a fridge until the 80s so fresh meat had to be used quickly. It was t=
he same for many of the older people I knew in the area.

=20

Later after we had moved to Ireland we discovered salt beef=2C often called=
'silverside' I think=2C although that may have been the cut of meat? It wa=
s very popular then=2C probably because for beef it was cheap=2C but I thin=
k it has fallen out of fashion now unlike bacon and cabbage. Like others ha=
ve said=2C it's not the same as the corned beef sold in the US.

=20

Sarah.
=20
> Date: Wed=2C 17 Mar 2010 22:32:30 +0000
> From: liam.greenslade[at]GOOGLEMAIL.COM
> Subject: [IR-D] St Patrick's Day Dilemma: Corned beef or bacon and cabbag=
e?
> To: IR-D[at]JISCMAIL.AC.UK
>=20
> An interesting piece of food ethnohistory by Frances Lam at Salon magazin=
e:
>=20
> http://www.salon.com/food/francis_lam/2010/03/16/st_patricks_day_corned_b=
eef_and_cabbage_irish/index.html
>=20
> I've always associated corned beef and cabbage with the Irish American=20
> diaspora whereas the corned beef I would have grown up with in England=20
> was a different class of animal altogether. Boiled bacon and cabbage=20
> would be my choice of stereotypically Irish food.
>=20
> Anyway happy St Pats to listers old and new
>=20
> Liam
=20
_________________________________________________________________
We want to hear all your funny=2C exciting and crazy Hotmail stories. Tell =
us now
http://clk.atdmt.com/UKM/go/195013117/direct/01/=

Sender: The Irish Diaspora Studies List
From: Patrick O'Sullivan
Subject: Book Notice, Marie-Louise Coolahan, Women, Writing,
and Language in Early Modern Ireland
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The following book has turned up in our alerts and will interest many Ir-D
members.

Some pages of the book are available on Google Books and on the Amazon
sites...

It looks a very impressive piece of work, with many familiar texts analysed
and many unfamiliar texts revealed.

P.O'S.

Women, Writing, and Language in Early Modern Ireland By Marie-Louise
Coolahan

This book examines writing in English, Irish, and Spanish by women living in
Ireland and by Irish women living on the continent between the years 1574
and 1676. This was a tumultuous period of political, religious, and
linguistic contestation that encompassed the key power struggles of early
modern Ireland. This study brings to light the ways in which women
contributed; they strove to be heard and to make sense of their situations,
forging space for their voices in complex ways and engaging with native and
new language-traditions. The book investigates the genres in which women
wrote: poetry, nuns' writing, petition-letters, depositions, biography and
autobiography. It argues for a complex understanding of authorial agency
that centres of the act of creating or composing a text, which does not
necessarily equate with the physical act of writing. The Irish, English, and
European contexts for women's production of texts are identified and
assessed. The literary traditions and languages of the different communities
living on the island are juxtaposed in order to show how identities were
shaped and defined in relation to each other. Marie-Louise Coolahan
elucidates the social, political, and economic imperatives for women's
writing, examines the ways in which women characterized female composition,
and describes an extensive range of cross-cultural, multilingual activity.

Hardcover: 256 pages
Publisher: OUP Oxford (28 Jan 2010)
Language English
ISBN-10: 0199567654
ISBN-13: 978-0199567652

Sender: The Irish Diaspora Studies List
From: "Murray, Edmundo"
Subject: San Patricio by The Chieftains a fiasco?
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The fact that the launching of this album was included yesterday in the New=
York Times editorial pages is an indication of the success of their market=
ing strategy. But... is it good music? (I mean really artistic, creative, r=
evolutionary, avantgarde, anything new...). What I could hear is just a cel=
ebration of commercialism in consumer culture. Except for "San Patricio" th=
ere are no new songs in the album dedicated to the St Patrick Battalion. Me=
xican musicians (big names, no surprises) play their part safely. No musica=
l fusion of any type, good or bad, no risk. Ideological use of the historic=
al event in visuals and communication. The San Patricios continue to attrac=
t artists in Ireland and in the US but have relative interest in Mexico and=
Latin America. The clear target continues to be the same one, Irish-US Ame=
rica. The Chieftains' latest tour went from Davis California (17 Feb) to Ne=
w York Town Hall right on SPD. Mexicans and Latin American residents in the=
US were only secondarily targeted. No concerts in Mexico so far, even if t=
he album was officially blessed by the priests at our Lady of Guadalupe in =
Mexico city.

The circulation experts know what they do. Producer Ry Cooder too. They exc=
el in marketing. The NY Times editorial is just another paraphrasing from t=
heir news releases, as it has been the immense majority of news about the n=
ew album in English-language media. A possible exception is a piece in "El =
Pa=EDs" published on Monday, which I pasted below.

Edmundo Murray


New York Times editorial
Published: March 16, 2010

"San Patricio"
On this day of all days in the Irish-American calendar, when ethnic pride s=
wells, let's raise a toast: Here's to the Irish, and here's to the rest of =
us. May we never forget where we came from. Nearly all of us were Mexicans =
once. That is: the new immigrants, poor and reviled, propelled by hope and =
hunger into America's prickly embrace.
hat brings this juxtaposition to mind is "San Patricio," a new album from P=
addy Moloney of the great Irish traditionalist band the Chieftains. It comm=
emorates a historical footnote: the San Patricio battalion of Irish-immigra=
nt soldiers who deserted the United States Army and fought for Mexico in th=
e Mexican-American War of 1846-48. ... Complete article at:
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/03/17/opinion/17wed4.html


EL PA=CDS, lunes 15 de marzo de 2010
Malditos del San Patricio
DIEGO A. MANRIQUE

Este mi=E9rcoles, d=EDa de San Patricio, los Chieftains actuar=E1n en Nueva=
York, capital de la di=E1spora irlandesa. Nada novedoso -ellos son habitua=
les de esa celebraci=F3n- excepto por su m=E1s reciente novedad discogr=E1f=
ica, precisamente titulada San Patricio. El grupo que pastorea Paddy Malone=
y parece haberse empe=F1ado en una tarea valiente: la reivindicaci=F3n del =
Batall=F3n de San Patricio, aquellos irlandeses que, en 1846, cambiaron de =
bando y lucharon contra Estados Unidos en la guerra que acab=F3 con la vent=
a -a punta de pistola- de la mitad del territorio que
entonces constitu=EDa M=E9xico. No estoy seguro de que lo aprecien mucho en=
Nueva York: naci=F3n =EDntimamente convencida de su superioridad espiritua=
l y material, EE UU ni entiende ni tolera a los que considera traidores. Re=
cuerden el
caso de John Walker Lindh, "el talib=E1n americano": aunque se libr=F3 por =
los pelos de la masacre en la fortaleza de Qala-i-Jangi, en Afganist=E1n, d=
e vuelta a su pa=EDs fue condenado a 20 a=F1os de c=E1rcel, sin posibilidad=
de libertad condicional. La memoria del San Patricio se ha perdido en el o=
sario de la Historia. Ellos encajan dif=EDcilmente en las narrativas contem=
por=E1neas: no todos eran de origen irland=E9s; de hecho, el Batall=F3n fun=
cionaba como una especie de Legi=F3n Extranjera que inclu=EDa voluntarios a=
lemanes m=E1s algunos espa=F1oles, italianos, escoceses y hasta esclavos ne=
gros fugitivos. Para los historiadores estadounidenses, fueron simplemente =
desertores del US Army, mientras que sus equivalentes mexicanos prefieren v=
erlos como sencillos colonos tejanos que se levantaron indignados contra lo=
s abusos de los anglosajones protestantes. Posiblemente, su catolicismo fue=
un factor de rebeld=EDa, aunque menos decisivo que las promesas de las aut=
oridades mexicanas: mejores soldadas, concesiones de tierras, la nacionalid=
ad. De cualquier manera, el San Patricio se distingui=F3 en media docena de=
batallas, tanto en duelos de artiller=EDa como en combates cuerpo a cuerpo=
. Demostraron una belicosidad superior a la del resto del ej=E9rcito mexica=
no. Y pagaron por ello: en 1847, con la guerra ya ganada, se colg=F3 a unos=
cincuenta irlandeses; otros fueron flagelados,
marcados en la cara con la "D" de desertores y condenados a trabajos forzad=
os. Cuento estos detalles ya que, debo avisarlo, San Patricio (Concord / Un=
iversal) es menos lecci=F3n hist=F3rica que aventura tur=EDstica: s=F3lo un=
pu=F1ado de los 19 cortes hacen referencia a los san patricios. Lo que ten=
emos aqu=ED es un muestrario de exuberantes aires mexicanos, protagonizados=
por grupos como Los Folkloristas, Los Camperos del Valle, Los Cenzontles y=
el Mariachi Santa Fe. Intervienen igualmente Lila Downs, Linda Ronstadt, L=
a Negra Graciana y nuestro Carlos N=FA=F1ez. Los Chieftains, ay, llevan a=
=F1os ideando obras conceptuales, donde diluyen sus artes irlandesas con t=
=E9cnicas de crossover. A veces, =E9stas tienen l=F3gica musical, como sus =
acercamientos al country o al universo galaico. Desdichadamente, la mercado=
tecnia impone el tir=F3n de los nombres comerciales, por encima de cualquie=
r filtro
de compatibilidad: all=ED uno puede encontrarse desde Ziggy Marley a Eros R=
amazzotti. El efecto final es aberrante: Maloney y compa=F1=EDa parecen inv=
itados que se cuelan de rond=F3n en sus propios discos. Para su expedici=F3=
n mexicana, los dublineses han contado con los servicios de Ry Cooder, en f=
unciones de guitarrista ocasional y coproductor. Cooder lleva a=F1os elabor=
ando una est=E9tica de grabaciones org=E1nicas, imposible de aplicar en una=
producci=F3n que se desperdiga por media docena de ciudades y otros tantos=
estudios. Este l=E1tigo de la modernidad cae aqu=ED en algunas de las tram=
pas que tanto denuncia. Ry se pone radical chic cuando cierra su =FAnica in=
terpretaci=F3n vocal, The sands
of Mexico, con "la historia me absolver=E1", la frase de Fidel Castro. Cood=
er tambi=E9n consigue que los Tigres del Norte suenen como una banda de can=
tina mal grabada, en una desdichada versi=F3n de la Canci=F3n mixteca. Tamp=
oco hace un favor a Chavela Vargas cuando la empuja, con sus mermadas facul=
tades, a cantar nuevamente Luz de luna. Al menos, Cooder y Maloney se han c=
ortado en un punto: no se han atrevido con La bamba.

Please consider the environment before printing this email or its attachmen=
t(s). Please note that this message may contain confidential information. =
If you have received this message in error, please notify me and then dele=
te it from your system.

Sender: The Irish Diaspora Studies List
From: Patrick O'Sullivan
Subject: Book Notice, Bovee, The Church and the Land
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This book will interest a number of Ir-D members. The opening chapter,
'Catholic Rural America to 1920', is a useful summing up of the literature
and the debates about the place of Catholics in the rural USA. Often, of
course, these are debates about the future of Irish Catholics, and
'Irishness'.

The bulk of the book is a history of the National Catholic Rural Life
Conference (NCRLC).

P.O'S.


David S. Bovee
The Church and the Land
The National Catholic Rural Life Conference and American Society, 1923-2007

The Church and the Land is the first scholarly history of the Catholic rural
life movement in the United States from its beginning in the 1920s to the
present day. It tells the story of the men and women of the National
Catholic Rural Life Conference (NCRLC) who labored to bring Catholic
principles into effect to benefit the farm families, agricultural laborers,
and others who lived in the American countryside.

This book recalls that in the nineteenth century, most Catholic immigrants
settled in the cities, and the few who dwelled in rural areas were a
neglected backwater of the Church. In 1923, under the leadership of an
Oregon priest named Edwin V. O'Hara, the NCRLC was formed as a grassroots
organization of rural clergy, religious, and laypeople dedicated to serving
the needs of Catholic rural America. During the Great Depression of the
1930s, the NCRLC focused on helping farmers in economic distress. In the era
of World War II, charismatic Monsignor Luigi Ligutti took the helm of the
NCRLC and brought the Conference into international rural life. The NCRLC
helped provide food relief and farms in America for war refugees and
supported aid to developing countries. The book goes on to detail the
Conference's participation in the War on Poverty by helping the poor and
minorities. Finally, it outlines the NCRLC's activities in recent decades to
save the earth from environmental degradation.

This book provides a fascinating institutional and intellectual history of
the NCRLC, one that will guide future scholars working in American Catholic
and rural history.

David S. Bovee received his Ph.D. in history from the University of Chicago
and is currently assistant professor of history at Fort Hays State
University in Kansas.

Praise for the Book:

"David Bovee's work is a very significant contribution to the history of
American Catholicism. This is the first full-length study of the NCRLC, and
it fills a gap. The scholarship is superb. Bovee has used every conceivable
primary and secondary source available."-Margaret M. McGuinness, professor
and chair of religious studies, La Salle University

"Everybody who does work in this field is familiar with David Bovee. The
Church and the Land provides impressive historical scope, research data, and
seemingly endless primary sources. This work will stand as the definitive
work on the Conference."-Jeffrey Marlett, associate professor of religious
studies, College of Saint Rose

Cloth ISBN-10: ISBN-13: 978-0-8132-1720-8 Price: $ 79.95S Book Code:
BOCL
STATUS: In Print

The Catholic University of America Press

SOURCE
http://cuapress.cua.edu/books/viewbook.cfm?Book=BOCL

Sender: The Irish Diaspora Studies List
From: "jjnmcg1[at]eircom.net"
Subject: Re: St Patrick's Day Dilemma: Corned beef or bacon and cabbage?
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Sarah, Did you see Mike Harding's column in the Irish Times on how our
national holiday is truly a gas occasion apropos of boiled cabbage and
bacon which being full of zinc does to the stomach what a lighted match
does to a can of petrol=2E And as for oats - did not the ancient heritic
Pelagius say that it filled the Scots ( Irish) with a righteous wind! John=
=20

Original Message:
-----------------
From: Sarah Morgan dympna101[at]HOTMAIL=2ECOM
Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2010 08:21:09 +0000
To: IR-D[at]JISCMAIL=2EAC=2EUK
Subject: Re: [IR-D] St Patrick's Day Dilemma: Corned beef or bacon and
cabbage=3F


When I was a child in the 70s, my Irish granny cooked bacon and cabbage
every day for dinner=2E Occasionally for a change it would be mince with
potatoes=2E Never Irish stew=2E She lived in a small rural town and bacon =
was
what she could buy unless someone gave her a lift to somewhere bigger=2E S=
he
didn't have a fridge until the 80s so fresh meat had to be used quickly=2E=
It
was the same for many of the older people I knew in the area=2E

=20

Later after we had moved to Ireland we discovered salt beef, often called
'silverside' I think, although that may have been the cut of meat=3F It wa=
s
very popular then, probably because for beef it was cheap, but I think it
has fallen out of fashion now unlike bacon and cabbage=2E Like others have=

said, it's not the same as the corned beef sold in the US=2E

=20

Sarah=2E
=20
> Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2010 22:32:30 +0000
> From: liam=2Egreenslade[at]GOOGLEMAIL=2ECOM
> Subject: [IR-D] St Patrick's Day Dilemma: Corned beef or bacon and
cabbage=3F
> To: IR-D[at]JISCMAIL=2EAC=2EUK
>=20
> An interesting piece of food ethnohistory by Frances Lam at Salon
magazine:
>=20
>
http://www=2Esalon=2Ecom/food/francis=5Flam/2010/03/16/st=5Fpatricks=5Fday=
=5Fcorned=5Fbeef
=5Fand=5Fcabbage=5Firish/index=2Ehtml
>=20
> I've always associated corned beef and cabbage with the Irish American=20=

> diaspora whereas the corned beef I would have grown up with in England=20=

> was a different class of animal altogether=2E Boiled bacon and cabbage=20=

> would be my choice of stereotypically Irish food=2E
>=20
> Anyway happy St Pats to listers old and new
>=20
> Liam
=09=09 =09 =09=09 =20
=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=
=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=
=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F
We want to hear all your funny, exciting and crazy Hotmail stories=2E Tell=
us
now
http://clk=2Eatdmt=2Ecom/UKM/go/195013117/direct/01/

--------------------------------------------------------------------
mail2web=2Ecom =96 What can On Demand Business Solutions do for you=3F
http://link=2Email2web=2Ecom/Business/SharePoint

Sender: The Irish Diaspora Studies List
From: Muiris Mag Ualghairg
Subject: Pope's pastoral letter
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I am working my way through the pastoral letter of the pope and hope
you won't mind if I make a few comments.

1) I hear some echos of the 1916 Declaration of Independence in that
the letter makes an appeal to the history of Catholicism in Irish to
try to shore up the ideal and in one part clearly echos the
declaration

Pastoral letter "Reflect upon the generous, often heroic,
contributions made by **past generations of Irish men and women***"
Declaration of Independence "***Irishmen and Irish women*** In the
name of God and of the ***dead generations*** from which she receives
her old tradition of nationhood"

2) The pastoral letter seems to suggest that recent changes in society
are to blame, in recent decades and links it into misunderstanding
about Vatican 2

"4. In recent decades, however, the Church in your country has had to
confront new and serious challenges to the faith arising from the
rapid transformation and secularization of Irish society. Fast-paced
social change has occurred, often adversely affecting people=92s
traditional adherence to Catholic teaching and values. All too often,
the sacramental and devotional practices that sustain faith and enable
it to grow, such as frequent confession, daily prayer and annual
retreats, were neglected. Significant too was the tendency during this
period, also on the part of priests and religious, to adopt ways of
thinking and assessing secular realities without sufficient reference
to the Gospel. The programme of renewal proposed by the Second Vatican
Council was sometimes misinterpreted and indeed, in the light of the
profound social changes that were taking place, it was far from easy
to know how best to implement it. In particular, there was a
well-intentioned but misguided tendency to avoid penal approaches to
canonically irregular situations. It is in this overall context that
we must try to understand the disturbing problem of child sexual
abuse, which has contributed in no small measure to the weakening of
faith and the loss of respect for the Church and her teachings.

Only by examining carefully the many elements that gave rise to the
present crisis can a clear-sighted diagnosis of its causes be
undertaken and effective remedies be found. Certainly, among the
contributing factors we can include: inadequate procedures for
determining the suitability of candidates for the priesthood and the
religious life; insufficient human, moral, intellectual and spiritual
formation in seminaries and novitiates; a tendency in society to
favour the clergy and other authority figures; and a misplaced concern
for the reputation of the Church and the avoidance of scandal,
resulting in failure to apply existing canonical penalties and to
safeguard the dignity of every person. Urgent action is needed to
address these factors, which have had such tragic consequences in the
lives of victims and their families, and have obscured the light of
the Gospel to a degree that not even centuries of persecution
succeeded in doing."


One wonders then whether the priests, brothers, sisters, bishops etc
who clearly committed many of these crimes in the period prior to
Vatican 2 had some kind of time machine which allowed them to be
influenced by the misinterpretation of that Council, how else could
those who undertook these activities in the 1930s/1940s/1950s have
done so under the Pope's analysis. One also has to ask how this
pastoral letter is going to make any changes to the situation. It asks
the faithful to pray, to fast, to adore the Eucharist but offers
nothing in the way of practical solutions to what has occurred, it
doesn't, for example, say that there will be a cleaning out (in polite
terms) of the hierarchy or of those who are tainted by all of this
(probably because as we are now seeing this might leave Ireland
without a hierarchy at all!) It also seems to treat this kind of
abuse as something that has happened in the Irish Church where as we
now know that it has happened around the world, in a variety of
countries and cultures, many of which have had very little Irish input
(as I have pointed out before this isn't a particularly 'Irish
problem' but is rather a 'church problem' in general as can be seen
from what is happening now in Germany and the stories starting to come
out from Scandinavian countries as well.

Finally, and on a slightly related topic. There are starting to be
murmurings here in Wales about the way the Church treats Welsh
Catholics. The First Minister of the National Assembly for Wales,
Carwyn Jones, issued an invite to the Pope to come to Wales as part of
his official visit to Great Britain. The invite has been refused, one
wonders what advice the First Minister, who is a very smooth political
operator and generally already knows the answer to anything he asks
prior to asking for it, will have received from the Catholic Church
both here in Wales and in the England. I doubt that he would have
issued the invitation on behalf of the Welsh Assembly Government if he
hadn't been lead to believe that it would be accepted. One leading
Catholic 'Harry Pritchard Jones' has already said that this shows that
the Church is treating Wales and England as one unit, something that
many in Wales have been complaining about for years. There are also
complaints that the Church is not willing to provide schools which
teach through the medium of Welsh (apart from one in Caernarfon)
despite losing thousands of its potential pupils to Welsh medium
schools. It should be pointed out that the First Minister's wife is
an Irish Catholic (from Belfast no less - and I should confess that I
was at university with the two of them!)

Muiris

Sender: The Irish Diaspora Studies List
From: Elizabeth Malcolm
Subject: Re: St Patrick's Day Dilemma: Corned beef or bacon and cabbage?
In-Reply-To:
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John,

I don=E2=80=99t know a lot about Pelagius and his Scots/Irish oats, but D=
r Johnson in his
dictionary famously defined oats as: =E2=80=98A grain, which in England i=
s generally given
to horses, but in Scotland supports the people=E2=80=99. Of the potato Jo=
hnson said: =E2=80=98I
suppose an American word. An esculent root=E2=80=99. He quoted Jonathan S=
wift, and then John
Gay: =E2=80=98Leek to the Welsh, to Dutchmen butter=E2=80=99s dear, Of Ir=
ish swains potatoe is
chear; Oats for their feasts the Scottish shepherds grind=E2=80=A6=E2=80=99

But Gay, in a fine example of food xenophobia, went on to say that he des=
pised
butter and did not prize leeks, oatmeal or the =E2=80=98potatoe=E2=80=99.=
I presume he was a =E2=80=98Roast
Beef of Old England=E2=80=99 man. If nothing else though, the spelling ma=
kes one re-consider
the ridicule a certain abortive American vice-presidential candidate was =
subjected
to years ago.

Mind you, it=E2=80=99s hard to be anti-Gay after the =E2=80=98Beggar=E2=80=
=99s Opera=E2=80=99, and the epitaph he
composed for his tomb: =E2=80=98Life is a jest, and all things show it/I =
thought so once,
and now I know it=E2=80=99.

Elizabeth
--------------------------------------------------
> Sarah, Did you see Mike Harding's column in the Irish Times on how our
> national holiday is truly a gas occasion apropos of boiled cabbage and
> bacon which being full of zinc does to the stomach what a lighted match
> does to a can of petrol. And as for oats - did not the ancient heretic
> Pelagius say that it filled the Scots (Irish) with a righteous wind! Jo=
hn
>
> Original Message:
> -----------------
> From: Sarah Morgan dympna101[at]HOTMAIL.COM
> Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2010 08:21:09 +0000
> To: IR-D[at]JISCMAIL.AC.UK
> Subject: Re: [IR-D] St Patrick's Day Dilemma: Corned beef or bacon and
> cabbage?
>
>
> When I was a child in the 70s, my Irish granny cooked bacon and cabbage
> every day for dinner. Occasionally for a change it would be mince with
> potatoes. Never Irish stew. She lived in a small rural town and bacon w=
as
> what she could buy unless someone gave her a lift to somewhere bigger. =
She
> didn't have a fridge until the 80s so fresh meat had to be used quickly=
. It
> was the same for many of the older people I knew in the area.
>
>
>
> Later after we had moved to Ireland we discovered salt beef, often call=
ed
> 'silverside' I think, although that may have been the cut of meat? It w=
as
> very popular then, probably because for beef it was cheap, but I think =
it
> has fallen out of fashion now unlike bacon and cabbage. Like others hav=
e
> said, it's not the same as the corned beef sold in the US.
>
>
>
> Sarah.
>
>> Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2010 22:32:30 +0000
>> From: liam.greenslade[at]GOOGLEMAIL.COM
>> Subject: [IR-D] St Patrick's Day Dilemma: Corned beef or bacon and
> cabbage?
>> To: IR-D[at]JISCMAIL.AC.UK
>>
>> An interesting piece of food ethnohistory by Frances Lam at Salon
> magazine:
>>
>>
> http://www.salon.com/food/francis_lam/2010/03/16/st_patricks_day_corned=
_beef
> _and_cabbage_irish/index.html
>>
>> I've always associated corned beef and cabbage with the Irish American
>> diaspora whereas the corned beef I would have grown up with in England
>> was a different class of animal altogether. Boiled bacon and cabbage
>> would be my choice of stereotypically Irish food.
>>
>> Anyway happy St Pats to listers old and new
>>
>> Liam
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> We want to hear all your funny, exciting and crazy Hotmail stories. Tel=
l us
> now
> http://clk.atdmt.com/UKM/go/195013117/direct/01/
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------
> mail2web.com =EF=BF=BD What can On Demand Business Solutions do for you=
?
> http://link.mail2web.com/Business/SharePoint
>


__________________________________________________
Professor Elizabeth Malcolm

Gerry Higgins Chair of Irish Studies
School of Historical Studies ~ University of Melbourne ~ Victoria, 3010, =
AUSTRALIA
Phone: +61-3-83443924 ~ Email: e.malcolm[at]unimelb.edu.au

President
Irish Studies Association of Australia and New Zealand (ISAANZ)
Website: http://isaanz.org
__________________________________________________

Sender: The Irish Diaspora Studies List
From: Elizabeth Malcolm
Subject: Re: St Patrick's Day Dilemma: Corned beef or bacon and cabbage?
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Paddy,

While reading the emails about St Patrick=E2=80=99s Day food, I=E2=80=99v=
e also in the last few days
been reading some articles written by an English journalist called John S=
tanley
James (1843-96). He worked as a part-time journalist in London in the 186=
0s; then
moved to the US in the early 1870s; and to Australia in the mid 1870s. He=
went back
to England in the early 1880s, though continuing to submit stories to Mel=
bourne
newspapers =E2=80=93 some about Ireland and Irish politics =E2=80=93 befo=
re working in the South
Pacific in the late 1880s and returning to Melbourne in 1890, where he di=
ed =E2=80=93 in the
inner-city suburb where I now live. He wrote under various names, but is =
probably
best known here as =E2=80=98The Vagabond=E2=80=99. One of his specialitie=
s was =E2=80=98undercover
journalism=E2=80=99: he took temporary jobs in prisons, workhouses and lu=
natic asylums and
then wrote sensationalist accounts of the dreadful conditions. (I=E2=80=99=
m especially
interested in his articles about asylums.)

But to get to the point - in May 1876 he wrote an article for the Melbour=
ne =E2=80=98Argus=E2=80=99
about the city=E2=80=99s working-class restaurants.

Shortly after arriving in Melbourne he had gone in search of a =E2=80=98g=
ood breakfast=E2=80=99,
which for him was =E2=80=98a cup of tea and some bread and butter=E2=80=99=
. At a =E2=80=98cheap restaurant=E2=80=99
the =E2=80=98Irish waitress=E2=80=99 offered him their standard breakfast=
fare: =E2=80=98chops, steaks,
sausages, fried fish, dry hash=E2=80=99. (Seems the Ulster fry was alive =
and well in
Melbourne in the 1870s =E2=80=93 even if its consumers were probably not =
alive and well for
too long if they ate it on a regular basis.) The breakfast cost 6d. James=
was amazed
at the cheapness of the meal, describing 6d as =E2=80=98the lowest coin i=
n circulation=E2=80=99 at
the time.

After this experience he went back a number of times to what he called th=
e =E2=80=98Sixpenny
Restaurants=E2=80=99. The dishes he said were =E2=80=98stereotyped=E2=80=99=
as was the cooking, except that
in the summer there were =E2=80=98more flies in the dishes than refined p=
rejudices might
fancy=E2=80=99. For dinner =E2=80=98stewed lamb=E2=80=99 - actually boile=
d mutton - was the base of many
meals. He wrote that: =E2=80=98=E2=80=9DStewed lamb=E2=80=9D, with a litt=
le curry stirred on the plate,
became =E2=80=9Ccurried mutton=E2=80=9D; or, with the addition of a few s=
lices of carrot, was
=E2=80=9Charicot mutton=E2=80=9D; or, again, with the addition of a few p=
otatoes mashed in, was
=E2=80=9CIrish stew=E2=80=9D.=E2=80=99

Dinner was taken by working men and boys at 1pm and as well as =E2=80=98s=
tewed lamb=E2=80=99, the
other favoured dish was =E2=80=98corned beef and cabbage=E2=80=99, consum=
ed with half a loaf of
bread. All dinners cost 6d. Some pubs had also begun to serve food from 1=
2 to 2pm in
competition with these restaurants, offering =E2=80=98corned beef and pot=
atoes=E2=80=99, plus a
=E2=80=98pint of ale=E2=80=99 =E2=80=93 all for 6d.

The clientele of the particular restaurant James went to was diverse, inc=
luding
blacks from Jamaica, Americans from the south and French Mauritians, a =E2=
=80=98stray
Chinaman=E2=80=99 =E2=80=93 the =E2=80=98only epicure=E2=80=99 - and Engl=
ishmen. But there were also many =E2=80=98sons of
the sod of various degrees of station and intellect, but mostly banded to=
gether
under Holy Church in hatred of the Sassenach=E2=80=99. They included a =E2=
=80=98Hibernian=E2=80=99 hawker,
=E2=80=98who orates on every subject=E2=80=99, and a blind beggar, who sa=
t at the door and reminded
James of the beggar in =E2=80=98Tom Burke of Ours=E2=80=99 =E2=80=93 an 1=
843 Charles Lever novel. =E2=80=98He seems
the sort of man to sing a seditious song and humbug a jury=E2=80=99. (Obv=
iously the
stereotypes went beyond the food.) Given the patrons, it=E2=80=99s not =
surprising then
that the menu catered especially for the Irish.

According to the 1871 census there were 100,500 Irish-born in Victoria an=
d about
171,000 Catholics =E2=80=93 Catholics in the context of Victoria at this =
time essentially
meant the Irish-born plus their children. The Irish-born were 14% of the =
colony=E2=80=99s
population and Catholics 23%. But in 1871 some inner Melbourne working-cl=
ass suburbs
had populations that were nearly one-quarter Irish and one-third Catholic.
Presumably these supplied many of the men who ate =E2=80=98Irish strew=E2=
=80=99 and =E2=80=98corned beef and
cabbage=E2=80=99 at James=E2=80=99s =E2=80=98Sixpenny Restaurants=E2=80=99=
in 1876.

Elizabeth

__________________________________________________
Professor Elizabeth Malcolm

Gerry Higgins Chair of Irish Studies
School of Historical Studies ~ University of Melbourne ~ Victoria, 3010, =
AUSTRALIA
Phone: +61-3-83443924 ~ Email: e.malcolm[at]unimelb.edu.au

President
Irish Studies Association of Australia and New Zealand (ISAANZ)
Website: http://isaanz.org
__________________________________________________

Sender: The Irish Diaspora Studies List
From: Patrick O'Sullivan
Subject: Pastoral Letter, Responses, English speaking countries
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Continuing with our theme of studying the ways in which Ireland becomes
visible in the world...

There has been worldwide media coverage of the Pastoral Letter of His
Holiness Benedict XVI to the Catholics of Ireland...

Full Text on Vatican web site

Pastoral Letter of His Holiness Benedict XVI to the Catholics of Ireland
(March 19, 2010)
[English, French, German, Italian, Polish, Portuguese, Spanish]

Synthesis of the Document
[English, French, German, Italian, Portuguese, Spanish]

http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/benedict_xvi/letters/2010/index_en.htm

http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/benedict_xvi/letters/2010/documents/hf_ben
-xvi_let_20100319_church-ireland_en.html


Below, links to sample responses from the USA, Australia, Canada...

P.O'S.


Boston Globe

Pope's letter strikes a mixed chord
While abuse victims see statement to Irish as clear failure, flock divided

http://www.boston.com/news/local/massachusetts/articles/2010/03/21/popes_let
ter_strikes_a_mixed_chord/

'...Helen McGonigle, a Connecticut lawyer who was sexually abused by an
Irish priest as a child in East Greenwich, R.I., in the late 1960s, called
the letter "sorely inadequate.'

McGonigle was abused by the Rev. Brendan Smyth, who used his position to
molest and rape dozens of children during a nearly half-century career in
which he was shuffled among parishes on both sides of the Atlantic...'


Australian clerical abuse victims want apology

'...Pope Benedict has admitted the bishops had "a misplaced concern for the
reputation of the Church and the avoidance of scandal".

But Care Leavers Australia Network president Leonie Sheedy says the same
things happened in Australia...'

http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2010/03/21/2851841.htm

Vatican failed to heed sex abuse lessons from Canada
Reports on sex abuse in Canadian Catholic church insisted that all
allegations be dealt with openly

'...In 1990, Kenny was a member of the Winter Commission set up by the
Catholic church to investigate the sexual abuse of boys by members of the
Christian Brothers religious order at the notorious Mount Cashel orphanage
in St. John's, Nfld., in the 1970s and 1980s.

Two years later, she became a member of the Ad Hoc Committee on Child Sexual
Abuse, set up by the Canadian Conference of Catholic Bishops. Its report,
From Pain to Hope, was issued after the church and the Ontario government
agreed to a $40 million compensation package for 1,600 men abused as
children at two Catholic training schools near Ottawa and Toronto.
Provincial police laid more than 200 assault and sex-related charges, which
ended in 15 convictions.

Both reports were widely applauded for pulling few punches...'

http://www.thestar.com/unassigned/article/782686--vatican-failed-to-heed-sex
-abuse-lessons-from-canada

Sender: The Irish Diaspora Studies List
From: Patrick O'Sullivan
Subject: Pastoral Letter, Responses, mainland Europe
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These give some idea of the coverage in mainland Europe...

Pope's apology also a warning for Germany: archbishop

The head of Germany's Roman Catholic Church said on Saturday that Pope
Benedict's apology to victims of sexual abuse was also a warning to his
country's church.

"The scandal of sexual abuse is not just an Irish problem. It's a church
scandal in many places and it is a church scandal in Germany," said
Archbishop Robert Zollitsch in a statement after the release of the Pope's
letter covering sexual abuse of minors by clergy in Ireland.

http://www.dw-world.de/dw/article/0,,5374545,00.html


Swiss Catholic Church investigating 10 abuse cases
ZURICH

In a pastoral letter on Saturday, Pope Benedict apologized to victims of
child sex abuse by clergy in Ireland and ordered an official inquiry there.

The Swiss Bishops' Conference said the Pope's letter confirmed the church in
Switzerland had acted correctly in dealing with cases of abuse, and added
that it had already worked together with victims to report abuse to the
authorities.

"The letter supports the guidelines that the Church introduced for cases of
sexual abuse in 2002," said Conference spokesman Walter Mueller.

http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE62J1OY20100320

The Vatican has moved into full damage control mode, making wide use of new
media outlets to put over its point of view during the latest revelations
concerning sexual abuse scandals in the Netherlands, Austria, Germany, Italy
and the world's most populous Catholic country, Brazil.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/8578064.stm

Sender: The Irish Diaspora Studies List
From: Patrick O'Sullivan
Subject: Pastoral Letter, Responses, Ireland & Britain
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There has been a great deal of coverage in the Irish and British papers and
media sites over the weekend - and indications are that this will continue
into the new week.

Some example, below...

I have seen some protests about anti-Catholic bias in the media - but not
that many.


Mixed reaction to pastoral letter
PAMELA NEWENHAM

Irish victims of clerical child sexual abuse are deeply disappointed by Pope
Benedict's letter of apology, a group representing survivors of abuse said
yesterday.

"While we welcome the pope's direction that the church leadership co-operate
with the civil authorities in relation to sexual abuse...we feel the letter
falls far short of addressing the concerns of the victims," said Maeve
Lewis, executive director of One in Four.

Ms Lewis said the pope's letter focused too narrowly on lower-ranked Irish
priests and neglected the responsibility of the Vatican in the scandal.

However, other groups including the Dublin Rape Crisis Centre and the Irish
Survivors of Child Abuse organisation said the letter was decisive action
carried out with complete honesty and transparency, which would restore the
respect and goodwill of the Irish people toward the Catholic church.
Welcoming the letter, the groups said it represented a highly emotional and
long overdue apology from the pope.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2010/0321/breaking3.html


Anger and disappointment in Ireland as the Pope's letter fails to heal
Victims of abuse at the hands of priests in Ireland are not satisfied by the
Pope's letter of apology.

By Carissa Casey in Dublin

Marie Collins is still a practising Catholic despite years of pain and
frustration fighting the Irish Catholic hierarchy.
In 1960, when she was 13, she was sexually abused by a chaplain at Crumlin
Hospital Dublin - but didn't report the abuse until 1995.

...'The Catholic church failed me. I despised myself and lost all
confidence'
New report into Catholic Church's cover-up of child abuse details 'horrific
acts'

Then, she said, "All I got was lies and deceit from the archdiocese (of
Dublin). I was bullied and threatened."
Last year she discovered from a report by Judge Yvonne Murphy into the
Dublin dioscese's handling of sex abuse allegations that the archbishop at
the time knew of complaints about her abuser - and so did the Irish police.
But nothing was done and the priest continued abusing children in his care.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/ireland/7489305/Anger-and-d
isappointment-in-Ireland-as-the-Popes-letter-fails-to-heal.html


Arrogant, corrupt, secretive - the Catholic church failed to tackle evil
The Catholic church is finally losing its rearguard action

Fintan O'Toole
The Observer, Sunday 21 March 2010

There is something symbolically apt, for example, about the way the
grotesque figure of the dead paedophile, Father Brendan Smyth, has returned
to threaten the position of the head of the Irish church, Cardinal Sean
Brady.

Smyth emerged as a public figure in 1994, when he was convicted in Belfast
after almost half a century of child abuse. He almost destroyed the
reputation of Brady's predecessor, Cahal Daly. He even contributed to the
fall of Albert Reynolds's government in 1994. It makes a kind of grim sense
that his horrific career, and the failure of the church to take any real
steps to stop him, has re-emerged to haunt another cardinal.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/mar/21/pope-benedict-xvi-catholicism

Sender: The Irish Diaspora Studies List
From: Patrick O'Sullivan
Subject: Re: An Irish Diaspora Studies book by X?
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John,

Thank you for this. It is a solution that had not occurred to me - I had
completely forgotten about X. It is a solution that I will adopt, for the
time being - for want of something better... Can anyone suggest something
better?

I have a copy of Wright & Swift, eds., X, Volume 1, Number 1, November 1959.
Price Six Shillings - which was a lot of money in 1959.

It is very nicely designed - Patrick Swift's work.

Looking around the web I can see some vendors asking for even more money for
this issue - I THINK this is because it contains a text by Beckett,
'L'Image', in French, which might be its first appearance.

There is a Wikipedia entry - and a web search will find more mentions.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/X_(magazine)

Someone has put a lot of work into this - note the many portraits by Patrick
Swift, picked up from diverse sources. The entry notes that the journal had
a backer - 'The actual backer I was never to meet, but through his
generosity X was able to pay contributors on the scale of Encounter.' So,
able to compete with the CIA.

David Wright was for a time Fellow in Poetry at Leeds
http://www.leeds.ac.uk/library/spcoll/leedspoetry/wright.htm

In Volume 1, Number 1, there seems to be a certain element of, We must give
them something. There is some good Stevie Smith, some meandering
MacDiarmid, Kavanagh. Some contributions are very hard to engage with
nowadays, and read like just verbiage.

The final 2 pages are given over to a sort of editorial, 'On the Margin',
which would take a lot of analysing, and includes what I think must be a
disguised attack on the behaviour of Brendan Behan.

Some of the contributors to other issues were around when I was in London in
the 1960s, and I cannot say I was greatly impressed. Bourgeois
squeamishness as aesthetic doctrine.

David Wright went deaf as a child, and had difficulty speaking. His
personal account of his deafness is greatly admired.

This is from an obituary

'It was not often that David Wright would give a reading, but I vividly
remember the occasion of Patrick Kavanagh's funeral when he read over his
grave; the look on the faces of the mourners was wondrous to behold...'

SOURCE

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/people/obituary-david-wright-1446202.html

Paddy O'Sullivan



-----Original Message-----
From: The Irish Diaspora Studies List [mailto:IR-D[at]JISCMAIL.AC.UK] On Behalf
Of jjnmcg1[at]eircom.net
Sent: 17 March 2010 19:36
To: IR-D[at]JISCMAIL.AC.UK
Subject: Re: [IR-D] An Irish Diaspora Studies book by X?

Patrick, I do not know if this helps, but there was a literary mag
(1961-63) entitled X ed. by Patrick Swift and the S.African poet David
Wright. John McGahern made his first appearance in print in the mag. X.
John all good wishes in all that you do. Happy Patrick's Day from
Tourmakeady Mayo.

Original Message:
-----------------
From: Patrick O'Sullivan P.OSullivan[at]BRADFORD.AC.UK
Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2010 11:00:46 -0000
To: IR-D[at]JISCMAIL.AC.UK
Subject: [IR-D] An Irish Diaspora Studies book by X?


Email Patrick O'Sullivan

There is not going to be a traditional St. Patrick's Day Irish Diaspora list
competition this year.

But the IR-D list might help me with a quandary...

...Irish Diaspora Studies gives us plenty of author names for every letter.
Even in Z we have Zaczek and Zimmerman. Plenty of Ys, of course, and Ws.

But nothing under X. I have a very fine letter X, carved on Douglas Fir.
But no book or books to stand beside it.

Can anyone think of a book, broadly within Irish Diaspora Studies, written
by someone whose family name begins with X?

Paddy O'Sullivan

Sender: The Irish Diaspora Studies List
From: Patrick O'Sullivan
Subject: Vatican and Wales
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From: W.F.Clarke[at]bton.ac.uk
To: "The Irish Diaspora Studies List"

But surely the Vatican, as a foreign 'state', is obliged to treat England
and Wales as Britain in diplomatic terms?

When Wales gives 'foreign aid' it is given to a district or group not to
another country.


Best


Liam Clarke=20

-----Original Message-----
From: The Irish Diaspora Studies List [mailto:IR-D[at]JISCMAIL.AC.UK] On
Behalf Of Muiris Mag Ualghairg
Sent: 20 March 2010 13:57
To: IR-D[at]JISCMAIL.AC.UK
Subject: [IR-D] Pope's pastoral letter

I am working my way through the pastoral letter of the pope and hope
you won't mind if I make a few comments.

EDIT FOR LENGTH

...Finally, and on a slightly related topic. There are starting to be
murmurings here in Wales about the way the Church treats Welsh
Catholics. The First Minister of the National Assembly for Wales,
Carwyn Jones, issued an invite to the Pope to come to Wales as part of
his official visit to Great Britain. The invite has been refused, one
wonders what advice the First Minister, who is a very smooth political
operator and generally already knows the answer to anything he asks
prior to asking for it, will have received from the Catholic Church
both here in Wales and in the England. I doubt that he would have
issued the invitation on behalf of the Welsh Assembly Government if he
hadn't been lead to believe that it would be accepted. One leading
Catholic 'Harry Pritchard Jones' has already said that this shows that
the Church is treating Wales and England as one unit, something that
many in Wales have been complaining about for years. There are also
complaints that the Church is not willing to provide schools which
teach through the medium of Welsh (apart from one in Caernarfon)
despite losing thousands of its potential pupils to Welsh medium
schools. It should be pointed out that the First Minister's wife is
an Irish Catholic (from Belfast no less - and I should confess that I
was at university with the two of them!)

Muiris

Sender: The Irish Diaspora Studies List
From: Patrick O'Sullivan
Subject: Article, Reluctant Diasporas of Northern Ireland
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Ir-d members will find especially useful the precise, concise and firm
placing of the discussion within the wider discussion and research
literature on 'Diaspora and Homeland'.

P.O'S.

Reluctant Diasporas of Northern Ireland: Migrant Narratives of Home,
Conflict, Difference

Author: Johanne Devlin Trew a Affiliation: a University of Ulster,

Published in: Journal of Ethnic and Migration Studies, Volume 36, Issue 4
April 2010 , pages 541 - 560

Abstract
This article discusses diaspora with specific regard to Northern Ireland as
a contested homeland, now vaunted as a post-conflict zone. Taking a
practice-led approach, I examine evidence of diasporic consciousness and
transnational practices through life-narrative interviews with migrants from
Northern Ireland during two studies on contemporary migration (2004-08). I
conclude that developing a sense of belonging to the Irish diaspora may be
problematic for Catholics, Protestants and others originating within the
contested space of Northern Ireland. I suggest that studying local and
family diasporas in the Irish context, with a focus on individual agency,
may ultimately be more useful in understanding migration and its impact on
processes of identity formation.

Keywords: Northern Ireland; Migration; Life-Narratives; Diaspora; Home

Sender: The Irish Diaspora Studies List
From: Patrick O'Sullivan
Subject: Working Paper, Gregory Clark, Was there ever a Ruling Class?
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Gregory Clark
Was there ever a Ruling Class? Surnames and Social Mobility in England,
1200-2009

This Working paper by Gregory Clark has appeared on his web site at...

http://www.gmu.edu/centers/publicchoice/wed%20seminars/papers%20spring10/23_
clark.pdf

I have contacted Professor Clark, and clarified his wishes. We have his
permission to bring the working paper to the attention of the Ir-D list -
but note that it is a working paper, might be modified, and should not be
cited without Professor Clark's permission.

The paper will be of interest to the Irish Diaspora list, because of the
general discussion of family name patterns, and the specific comments on the
Irish. It is indeed an intriguing use of the family name material in the
censuses - and of special interest to the isonymysts.

Gregory Clark tells me that he is planning to do a lot more on the social
mobility of the Irish in England as part of this project - but that lies
ahead.

Gregory Clark's book, A Farewell to Alms: A Brief Economic History of the
World, Princeton University Press, 2007. There are extracts and links to
review on his web site.

http://www.econ.ucdavis.edu/faculty/gclark/

http://www.econ.ucdavis.edu/faculty/gclark/a_farewell_to_alms.html

Our thanks to Gregory Clark for his scholarly co-operation.

P.O'S.

Sender: The Irish Diaspora Studies List
From: Bill Mulligan
Subject: Re: St Patrick's Day Dilemma: Corned beef or bacon and cabbage?
In-Reply-To:
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This has been an interesting thread. I think it gets to the differences =
between the Irish experience in Ireland and the experience of the Irish =
in the Diaspora of being Irish -- as well as generational or temporal =
variations. Is one experience privileged above the other? Are some more =
Irish than others? Food ways may be among the most understudied aspects =
of the Diaspora as well. Growing up in the suburbs of NYC with parents =
whose parents had all been born in the US (I was born in 1948) corned =
beef and cabbage was standard fare for St. Patrick's Day--still is, when =
I called my dad couldn't talk because he was busy cooking it--not only =
in our home but everywhere I had any experience with--until I went away =
to college in 1966. In Worcester, Mass--where I went to college and grad =
school--which also has a very large Irish population, the same applied =
through 1977. =20

In Irish America, wherever I have lived, at least after WWII the dish to =
eat to "honor the day" was corned beef and cabbage. Since becoming aware =
of this difference and actually preferring bacon and cabbage I have had =
it more often than not--but this year I was not able to get bacon =
(Internet issues)--so I reverted to corned beef and I still feel Irish =
American. =20

Bill Mulligan

William H. Mulligan, Jr.=20
Professor of History
Graduate Program Coordinator
Murray State University=20
Murray KY 42071-3341 USA
office phone 1-270-809-6571
dept phone 1-270-809-2231
fax 1-270-809-6587

Sender: The Irish Diaspora Studies List
From: "Rogers, James S."
Subject: bigamy
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A question came in that is well outside my knowledge (lots of things are...=
)

Can the list point me toward any studies of studies of spousal abandonmen=
t in Ireland-the husband/father walking away and never returning (think Fr=
ank McCourt's dad).

More specifically, the questioner wanted to know if there was anything writ=
ten about bigamy among immigrants, with the abandoning husband remarrying i=
n the new country?

I'm interested in published work only, whether historical, sociological, or=
even in memoirs-- and not in anecdote. Sorry, just don't want to hear abo=
ut your no-good great uncle Eddie--my great uncle was just as bad or worse.=
...

Jim Rogers

Sender: The Irish Diaspora Studies List
From: Bill Mulligan
Subject: Re: bigamy
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William H. Mulligan, Jr. "Divorce in Worcester County, Massachusetts, 1863
- 1880," Journal of Family Issues 1 (1980) is worth looking at on this
issue. All modesty set aside.

-----Original Message-----
From: The Irish Diaspora Studies List [mailto:IR-D[at]JISCMAIL.AC.UK] On Behalf
Of Rogers, James S.
Sent: Monday, March 22, 2010 6:17 PM
To: IR-D[at]JISCMAIL.AC.UK
Subject: [IR-D] bigamy

A question came in that is well outside my knowledge (lots of things are...)

Can the list point me toward any studies of studies of spousal abandonment
in Ireland-the husband/father walking away and never returning (think Frank
McCourt's dad).

More specifically, the questioner wanted to know if there was anything
written about bigamy among immigrants, with the abandoning husband
remarrying in the new country?

I'm interested in published work only, whether historical, sociological, or
even in memoirs-- and not in anecdote. Sorry, just don't want to hear about
your no-good great uncle Eddie--my great uncle was just as bad or worse....

Jim Rogers

Sender: The Irish Diaspora Studies List
From: Patrick O'Sullivan
Subject: Pelagius
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Subject: Pelagius
From: Patrick Maume
To: The Irish Diaspora Studies List


From; Patrick Maume
Actually, I believe it was St. Jerome who said Pelagius was filled with
wind by Scotch porridge, not the other way round.
Best wishes,
Patrick

MODERATOR NOTE:
See for example...
'While the most trustworthy witnesses, such as Augustine, Orosius, Prosper,
and Marius Mercator, are quite explicit in assigning Britain as his native
country, as is apparent from his cognomen of Brito or Britannicus, Jerome
(Praef. in Jerem., lib. I and III) ridicules him as a "Scot" (loc. cit.,
"habet enim progeniem Scoticae gentis de Britannorum vicinia"), who being
"stuffed with Scottish porridge" (Scotorum pultibus proegravatus) suffers
from a weak memory.'
http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/11604a.htm


On Sat, Mar 20, 2010 at 3:22 AM, Elizabeth Malcolm wrote:

> John,
>
> I don=E2=80=99t know a lot about Pelagius and his Scots/Irish oats, but D=
r Johnson
> in his
> dictionary famously defined oats as: =E2=80=98A grain, which in England i=
s
> generally given
> to horses, but in Scotland supports the people=E2=80=99... Jo=
>
> Elizabeth
> --------------------------------------------------
> > Sarah, Did you see Mike Harding's column in the Irish Times on how our
> > national holiday is truly a gas occasion apropos of boiled cabbage and
> > bacon which being full of zinc does to the stomach what a lighted match
> > does to a can of petrol. And as for oats - did not the ancient heretic
> > Pelagius say that it filled the Scots (Irish) with a righteous wind! Jo=
hn
> >